Machining 316, never done it before - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    If you've got TSC then no need to peck. I like to keep the drill in the cut where I can.

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  3. #22
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    I will throw my hat in this ring. I sell both Helical and Gorilla Mill. The Gorilla Mill is suggested to run 500 SFM 70 IPM with a .100" stepover for a 1/2" tool. Hit me up if you need a source. FYI Gorilla Mill is running a buy 4 get 1 free promo till the end of the month.

    I would pop a 5/8" indexable drill to depth and start an HSM path. If you go solid don't peck it is not a very deep hole compared to the drill diameter.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shop Supply Guru View Post
    I will throw my hat in this ring. I sell both Helical and Gorilla Mill. The Gorilla Mill is suggested to run 500 SFM 70 IPM with a .100" stepover for a 1/2" tool. Hit me up if you need a source. FYI Gorilla Mill is running a buy 4 get 1 free promo till the end of the month.

    I would pop a 5/8" indexable drill to depth and start an HSM path. If you go solid don't peck it is not a very deep hole compared to the drill diameter.
    Watts the price difference between Helical and Gorilla?

  5. #24
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    Gorilla vs. Helical is pretty close across the board. If you picked ten random items and compared them I bet it would even out. I will say this they don't price similar series the same. One will be a lot cheaper than the other on similar products. Can't explain that....

    For this application a
    Helical 1/2" 1-1/4" flute length 7 fluter is $70.00 for Aplus and $81.40 for Tplus (which I bet would be better for 316)
    Gorilla Mill 1/2" 1-1/4" flute length 7 fluter is $75.59. The Gorilla Mill GMS2 coating is a step up from Aplus. Helical doesn't really share what's in their new Tplus coating so I am not sure how it compares but my guess is it is close to the GMS2 which is what Gorilla calls their Balzers AlCrN special mix.

  6. #25
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    This drill be ok? https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/61704508

    Yes, I'm flying blind here. lol

    I do sincerely appreicate the help.

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    Dj don’t buy it from MSC whatever you do. I can sell you a Walter brand for half of that. I’m sure a local supplier to you could do the same.

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    My vote is on pre drill too. 316 is one material that has had me frustrated. Good quality carbide endmills worked the best. Full depth, 5–7% radial engagement. Tried indexable endmills and that was a joke.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Ever try running a 1/2" EM 1.625" doc at full slot in 4140 PH ?

    Didn't think so.
    I'm not stupid, so no, I never tried that. You HSM folks that think it's going to cure world hunger are fools. It's great, I use Trochoidal paths a lot. But I cod finish this job faster than 5 minutes a part without it.

    OP the solid drill you posted from MSC is redonculously over priced. Why not use an Indexable Insert Drill? You don't need huge HP for them, your only going 1" deep. I could literally put a 2" hole in plate in maybe 30 seconds (including toolchange). Another .5" per side, with an Endmill in another 60 seconds-maybe 1.5 minutes.

    OR use HSM with the other youtubers, spend an hour getting code to the Machine. And spending what 4.15 (Mastercam) minutes Roughing and Finishing from a small hole.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    I'm not stupid, so no, I never tried that. You HSM folks that think it's going to cure world hunger are fools. It's great, I use Trochoidal paths a lot. But I cod finish this job faster than 5 minutes a part without it.

    OP the solid drill you posted from MSC is redonculously over priced. Why not use an Indexable Insert Drill? You don't need huge HP for them, your only going 1" deep. I could literally put a 2" hole in plate in maybe 30 seconds (including toolchange). Another .5" per side, with an Endmill in another 60 seconds-maybe 1.5 minutes.

    OR use HSM with the other youtubers, spend an hour getting code to the Machine. And spending what 4.15 (Mastercam) minutes Roughing and Finishing from a small hole.

    R
    A lot of customers especially ones a budget don't want to spend on indexable tool and that is where HSM/ Trochoidal whatever we want to call it helps. But I agree the bigger the tool the better. Also if you don't have a 2" or 1.5" flat bottom indexable drill it's time to get one as it makes much faster work and uses less tool in the long run..... of course then I sell less endmills

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    I'm still trying to figure out why people think Drilling a "hole" might be better with a Tool other than a Drill. Drills are-in fact- provably-indisputably the most effective metal removal Tool there is. Second is a Turning Centre.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    I'm not stupid, so no, I never tried that. You HSM folks that think it's going to cure world hunger are fools. It's great, I use Trochoidal paths a lot. But I cod finish this job faster than 5 minutes a part without it.

    OP the solid drill you posted from MSC is redonculously over priced. Why not use an Indexable Insert Drill? You don't need huge HP for them, your only going 1" deep. I could literally put a 2" hole in plate in maybe 30 seconds (including toolchange). Another .5" per side, with an Endmill in another 60 seconds-maybe 1.5 minutes.

    OR use HSM with the other youtubers, spend an hour getting code to the Machine. And spending what 4.15 (Mastercam) minutes Roughing and Finishing from a small hole.

    R
    I never said you have to use HSM.
    On this job he might do better with a heavy stepover.
    But, I have had times where HSM ended up saving the day, (i.e. long overhangs, limited fixturing, difficult material, etc., etc.).

    You can bitch about it all you want, I don't care.
    It's another tool in the bag......

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  17. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out why people think Drilling a "hole" might be better with a Tool other than a Drill. Drills are-in fact- provably-indisputably the most effective metal removal Tool there is. Second is a Turning Centre.

    R
    I'm with you, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. OP has a Haas SS and runs mostly non-ferrous. Good recipe for "cutting corners" is all I'm saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I never said you have to use HSM.
    On this job he might do better with a heavy stepover.
    But, I have had times where HSM ended up saving the day, (i.e. long overhangs, limited fixturing, difficult material, etc., etc.).

    You can bitch about it all you want, I don't care.
    It's another tool in the bag......
    Hey Noob. Take it easy. I don't give 2 fucks what you do. But people who consistently tout HSM (like you), seem to have tunnel vision. It's not great for minor bumps or toothpaste. You shouldn't use it in your Spaghetti. You can't replace Gasoline with it.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    It's not great for minor bumps or toothpaste. You shouldn't use it in your Spaghetti. You can't replace Gasoline with it.

    R
    Did I say that?

    I never implied that it's good for everything........ or even most things.

    All I said was it can be useful if a heavier stepover doesn't work well (rigidity, material, etc.)

    I don't use it unless I have to. THEN it's nice.

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  21. #35
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    Go on eBay and pick up a nice used Sumitomo SMD series inserted drill body and some inserts. It'll cost you half what that drill does from MSC. I love their split tip geometry for stainless and other "tough" metals, and they also make corner-chamfered (for hard steel or cast iron) and flat bottom inserts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out why people think Drilling a "hole" might be better with a Tool other than a Drill. Drills are-in fact- provably-indisputably the most effective metal removal Tool there is. Second is a Turning Centre.

    R


    Its a hole, drill it as big as you can and interpolate the rest to size.


    What size hole can you drill?

    Well for a couple hundred pieces I would waste my money on indexables drill unless you have one or feel its a size worth buying for future work. They are one size for one hole size, body and inserts are pricey.

    Carbide drill...eh. Its as good as the tip lasts.

    HSS drill....if you have one, go for it.

    If you going to put cash down for a tool my money is on a Spade drill. Nice short size, 1-1/2" or so will pop a nice starting hole in 316SS in short time. Plus the body can be used for several other size inserts/blades and you can buy them as singles or buy several...not the indexable 10 packs


    Put the biggest hole in you can, then mill. If you wanna play with pockets cycles and HSM go for it...but start with BIGgest Hole you can.

  23. #37
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    316 SS if it has relatively large hard spots of slag in it will use up tooling 10x to 100x faster than normal. big difference if you got "cheap" SS with hard spots
    .
    in general a harder metal you have to take less depth and width of cut cause of cutter vibration limits, just saying 1/2" dia end mill at 1" depth in SS good luck with that trying to do a 5 min cycle time, 7 cubic inches SS turned into chips or 1.4 cub inch per min at 0.3 cub in per hp per min thats about 4.7hp needed, thats a lot of hp and cutting force on a 1/2" dia end mill
    .
    3" dia hole in 316 SS would take about if
    0.2 cubic in per hp per min
    30 sfpm so 38 rpm at 0.6 ipm feed need about 21hp
    if softer at 0.4 cubic in per hp per min about 10.8hp needed
    .
    carbide insert drill 3" dia
    0.4 cubic in per hp per min
    200 sfpm , 255rpm at 4.1 ipm feed about 72hp needed..... got to watch big carbide drills, they need a lot of hp
    .
    abrasive wear dont be surprised tool dull in less than 10 minutes

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  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    316 SS if it has relatively large hard spots of slag in it will use up tooling 10x to 100x faster than normal. big difference if you got "cheap" SS with hard spots
    .
    in general a harder metal you have to take less depth and width of cut cause of cutter vibration limits, just saying 1/2" dia end mill at 1" depth in SS good luck with that trying to do a 5 min cycle time, 7 cubic inches SS turned into chips or 1.4 cub inch per min at 0.3 cub in per hp per min thats about 4.7hp needed, thats a lot of hp and cutting force on a 1/2" dia end mill
    .
    3" dia hole in 316 SS would take about if
    0.2 cubic in per hp per min
    30 sfpm so 38 rpm at 0.6 ipm feed need about 21hp
    if softer at 0.4 cubic in per hp per min about 10.8hp needed
    .
    carbide insert drill 3" dia
    0.4 cubic in per hp per min
    200 sfpm , 255rpm at 4.1 ipm feed about 72hp needed..... got to watch big carbide drills, they need a lot of hp
    .
    abrasive wear dont be surprised tool dull in less than 10 minutes
    Where's the period key?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Djstorm100 View Post
    Looking at drills now with thru spindle coolant and peck it. If I'm using a 1/2" end mill, use a 13mm drill to give added diameter clearance?
    dont peck, especially with TSC.

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    Customer contacted me and stated its 316L, not 316. Seems like"L" in the stainless means low carbon and does not affect machining much. It's for the most part meant to reduce sensitivity when welding or something like that. I could be wrong and probably am. If not low carbon, only other thing could mean is lead.

    If these parts happen to be cast, is there any precaution to know about with cutting cast material?

    I know some companies do not like to machine cast iron because of clean up or the dust getting in to places it should not (linear guides and lungs for example). Not sure if this is a aspect of it being cast or nature of iron.
    Last edited by Djstorm100; 05-19-2020 at 11:54 PM.


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