Makino F5 or Okuma MB 56 VA
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  1. #1
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    Default Makino F5 or Okuma MB 56 VA

    We are making a leap into a higher end vertical but can not decide.

    Both machines are in the same price range. Okuma doesn't come stock with glass scales but has a 30hp spindle vs makino's 20hp (both 20k rpm). Okuma is big plus, Makino hsk63.

    Would the glass scales make that big of a difference? We really can not see much of a difference other than the control.

    This will be the first of 4 new vmc's and I'm ready to flip a coin.

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    If you are really going to step up than adding the scales to the Okuma would be worth it. Also, if you are looking for high speed does the Makino come preloaded with all the hot control options and is the Okuma coming with Super Nurbs?

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    The Makino F5 has all the fanuc high speed nurbs options and the Okuma does have super nurbs. Okuma offers scales and a mold die option (finer pitch ball screw). The rep is claiming the scales are not nessisary, but im starting to doubt it. We do not cut steel (7075 ali) but every part is heavy on surfacing. Lots of mold textures and STL files with organic surfaces. Not sure we need the fine pitch ball screws.

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    Have them run samples of your parts with your programming. Review surface finish and cycle time.

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    I rarely use all 14hp of my Brother @ 10k rpm. I imagine at 20k rpm, I would use a lot more HP. However, if you do a lot of surfacing, I'd go with the scales and the 20hp spindle, as you won't be needing 30hp for your surfacing. I'm guessing right now roughing is probably only 10% or less of your cycle time.

    Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by studiotool View Post
    We are making a leap into a higher end vertical but can not decide.

    Both machines are in the same price range. Okuma doesn't come stock with glass scales but has a 30hp spindle vs makino's 20hp (both 20k rpm). Okuma is big plus, Makino hsk63.

    Would the glass scales make that big of a difference? We really can not see much of a difference other than the control.

    This will be the first of 4 new vmc's and I'm ready to flip a coin.

    This brings up a question here, is there a big difference in HSK63 and Big Plus (40?) for your needs?

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    Default Makino F5 or Okuma MB 56 VA

    Pretty much all I do is highly aesthetic 3D surfacing in aluminum on my Okuma M560. If you want, PM me and you can give me a call or something. You can also swing by my Instagram @frontlinefab and take a look at what sort of finishes it produces.

    I attached a sample.

    image.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by studiotool View Post
    The Makino F5 has all the fanuc high speed nurbs options and the Okuma does have super nurbs. Okuma offers scales and a mold die option (finer pitch ball screw). The rep is claiming the scales are not nessisary, but im starting to doubt it. We do not cut steel (7075 ali) but every part is heavy on surfacing. Lots of mold textures and STL files with organic surfaces. Not sure we need the fine pitch ball screws.
    Finer pitch screws is a good thing on 3D?
    Seems to me that the opposite would make sense.
    ???


    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Well to me finer pitch mean more precision just like they use a finer pitch screw on the more precise micrometer? That make alot of sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Finer pitch screws is a good thing on 3D?
    Seems to me that the opposite would make sense.
    ???


    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I don't have much experience in this field, but if small step over and motion control is critical I would default to thinking that a finer pitch would allow for better feed control over a variable surface.

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    How small'a step-over you want?
    They can hit tenths with a 10mm pitch any other day of the week.
    Finer pitch to me means more available thrust in Z.


    Finer pitch sounds like a LOT more heat on a screw that is constantly in motion - and pretty fast motion at that.
    Thus LESS accuracy doo to thermal growth.



    ???



    edit:


    Well to me finer pitch mean more precision just like they use a finer pitch screw on the more precise micrometer? That make alot of sense to me.
    Are there mics out there that use something other than 40tpi or possibly .5mm*/rev other than a 3 point mic?

    It would seem that a same pitch/bigger D thread/barrel would actually be more betterer than a finer pitch. ???



    * I guess that I don't have any mechanical metric mics, so I guess that I don't know what kind of thread layout they have.
    Just guessing at .5mm...


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    Think Snow Eh!
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    Last edited by Ox; 12-28-2014 at 04:41 PM. Reason: edit

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    Ive seen mitutoyo mic that measure to 0.00005 and have finer pitch you can feel it using it since it open/close way slower than a reg mic. Im pretty sure starrett make them too.

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    According to Makino fine pitch ball screws are more accurate and have more torque. If you look at all the mold die machines they have a max speed of 787ipm. Okuma offers the same option under its mold die option. I cannot find a definitive answer from the vendors how much a difference this makes. Makino F series and Okk VB53 only come with a fine pitch and scales. On the Okuma scales are a 40k option.

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    I recall reading a forum post in which the poster claimed that their Fadal 3d surfaced quite nicely when it had linear scales, even when moving all 3-axis simultaneously. My Fadal doesn't 3d surface all that well when I use all 3-axis, but if I do step downs in the Z direction and moves in the XY plane it 3d surfaces well enough.

    Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by studiotool View Post
    We are making a leap into a higher end vertical but can not decide.

    Both machines are in the same price range. Okuma doesn't come stock with glass scales but has a 30hp spindle vs makino's 20hp (both 20k rpm). Okuma is big plus, Makino hsk63.

    Would the glass scales make that big of a difference? We really can not see much of a difference other than the control.

    This will be the first of 4 new vmc's and I'm ready to flip a coin.
    MB56 or Genos 560? We have both, the Genos is just as good as the made in Japan 56

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    Are these cooled screws?


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Crazy how they can charge you $40k for scales when the hardware cost like $4500....

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Auto View Post
    MB56 or Genos 560? We have both, the Genos is just as good as the made in Japan 56
    MB version, We wanted the 20k spindle because of all the small ball mills we use. Im starting to think the genos might be a better option and then buy 3 tool changeable air spindles.

    Makino and OKK are core cooled screws and the Okuma uses software to predict thermal growth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by studiotool View Post
    Makino and OKK are core cooled screws and the Okuma uses software to predict thermal growth.
    I'd trust physically cooled screws over software..........................

    Most high end mold shops 'round these parts have at least one Makino(or dream of having one). Nice out of the crate machine built almost exclusively for mold and die work.

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    Mold is a relatively general term of part.

    What kind of "molds"? What is your machine budget?


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