Manual saw for cutting up blanks recommendations.
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  1. #1
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    Default Manual saw for cutting up blanks recommendations.

    I currently use a Turn Pro 7" x 12" horizontal band saw it has a small coolant tank and has worked ok for the last 10+ years I bought it new from Enco. The problem I have with it is it doesn't cut square the bigger the material the worse it gets the pivot point is cast into the bed and they are not square it is off by about 3/16" over 7".

    I cut up 6061 with it the most and occasionally some 316 SS. I am a one man shop so an automatic saw won't be in the budget. Should I look at some other type saw other than a bandsaw? I would probably spend between $4-$5K for new but I wouldn't mind looking for something used. Would a cold saw be better for what I am doing or should I stick with a bandsaw? I like the looks of the 1600 & 1800 Ellis what else should I look at?

    Thanks Mike

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    If it cuts straight it would seem the holding vise could be adjusted to make it run 1/32 over 7"

    $4-$5K should but a very nice saw.

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    I picked up one of these about a year ago:
    https://www.mscdirect.com/product/de...rItem=00919522

    It's serving me well cutting 17-4 H900 and Ti6Al4V. The 1" blade lasts a lot longer and cuts a lot straighter than the 3/4" blade on my previous one.

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    Mike,

    Have you asked your supplier for cut piece pricing? Coast at least is surprisingly low on their cut charges, for higher quantities.

    I actually buy cut stock from a nearby machine shop. They have a nice autosaw, and with their volume, can sell me cut pieces usually cheaper than I can buy full bars.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    Mike,

    Have you asked your supplier for cut piece pricing? Coast at least is surprisingly low on their cut charges, for higher quantities.

    I actually buy cut stock from a nearby machine shop. They have a nice autosaw, and with their volume, can sell me cut pieces usually cheaper than I can buy full bars.

    Regards.

    Mike
    Mikes idea is good if you do a good quantity, check with a local supplier.

    I have an Ellis 1600 that i like and it cuts well. The problem with Ellis and aluminum is you are not supposed to use coolant on my model of saw. I made a dripper to drip coolant on the rotating chip brush at about 2 drips per second, works well enough.

    Ed

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    Try the Lenox bandsaw blades.

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    Gundog, what size material are you cutting? We have a cold saw and a band saw, and they both have their place. Both are Jet brand.

    Pros on the cold saw- accurate, hold .005 tolerance and very good surface finish, might save a machining op. Fast to set angles. Nicer to use than a bandsaw, not bending over the thing. Cons are that you need the blade pitch matched fairly closely to the cutting thickness, so if you go from 1/4" round to 1-1/2" square you'll need to change blades. Kind of annoying.

    We cut a bunch of 3-1/2"x3/16" wall DOM tubing to +/-.010, and using the cold saw saved having to face them on the lathe after using the bandsaw. But the vibration would float your molars, we all hated that job. Now we order them cut (like has been recommended), and life is much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundog View Post
    I currently use a Turn Pro 7" x 12" horizontal band saw it has a small coolant tank and has worked ok for the last 10+ years I bought it new from Enco. The problem I have with it is it doesn't cut square the bigger the material the worse it gets the pivot point is cast into the bed and they are not square it is off by about 3/16" over 7".
    Sounds like a blade problem. I have the same saw, and it cuts very square, probably within .02" on a 4" cut. Try a Lenox 4/6 blade on your thick stock.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    Sounds like a blade problem. I have the same saw, and it cuts very square, probably within .02" on a 4" cut. Try a Lenox 4/6 blade on your thick stock.

    Regards.

    Mike
    You can put a square on the blade it touches at the top 7" above table When the blade drops to the bottom it is now 3/16" off there is no adjustment for that.

    I have started making a lot of parts from angle aluminum and wasting a lot of material cutting blanks over size especially the 6" angle. I cut some round and a lot of bar. I make a lot of different parts for my business I keep material in stock not knowing what I will make next so having it all cut before I get doesn't work out well for me. I have a custom extrusion made and those parts I do have Coast Aluminum cut those for me because all of that material is used for the same part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundog View Post
    You can put a square on the blade it touches at the top 7" above table When the blade drops to the bottom it is now 3/16" off there is no adjustment for that.

    I have started making a lot of parts from angle aluminum and wasting a lot of material cutting blanks over size especially the 6" angle. I cut some round and a lot of bar. I make a lot of different parts for my business I keep material in stock not knowing what I will make next so having it all cut before I get doesn't work out well for me. I have a custom extrusion made and those parts I do have Coast Aluminum cut those for me because all of that material is used for the same part.
    OK, well that's bad . Like I said, my Turnpro 7x12 cuts square within like .02" over 4".

    Has yours always been this bad? Is the pivot pin bore wallowed out?

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    Gundog, what size material are you cutting? We have a cold saw and a band saw, and they both have their place. Both are Jet brand.

    Pros on the cold saw- accurate, hold .005 tolerance and very good surface finish, might save a machining op. Fast to set angles. Nicer to use than a bandsaw, not bending over the thing. Cons are that you need the blade pitch matched fairly closely to the cutting thickness, so if you go from 1/4" round to 1-1/2" square you'll need to change blades. Kind of annoying.

    We cut a bunch of 3-1/2"x3/16" wall DOM tubing to +/-.010, and using the cold saw saved having to face them on the lathe after using the bandsaw. But the vibration would float your molars, we all hated that job. Now we order them cut (like has been recommended), and life is much better.
    I have 2 custom extrusions made one I have cut by my supplier but the other extrusion I cut to different lengths and I end up sanding the ends because the cut finish is really bad using the bandsaw if I could get a nice smooth finish I could save a lot of time using a right angle die grinder and a roloc disc sanding the finish smooth.

    I cut some 1/4" x 7" bar and some 6" x 6" x 1/4" Angle and everything else is smaller. Occasionally I cut some 12" wide bar stock for fixtures but I could do that with my turn pro BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    OK, well that's bad . Like I said, my Turnpro 7x12 cuts square within like .02" over 4".

    Has yours always been this bad? Is the pivot pin bore wallowed out?

    Regards.

    Mike
    I think it has but until recently I always just cut bar stock so I never really noticed the huge error until I started cutting the bigger angle.

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    I think you would really appreciate a cold saw. We have a 315mm, and I'm not sure of it would cut 6"x6" angle, it would be close. Might have to go to a 350mm. If you're cutting a bunch of blanks there might be a big time savings both in the the cut and in not having to touch that surface again.

    And it should be in your budget.

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    Question about Cold saws I assume I need the non Ferrous models and the difference would be blade speed. If I go with a cold saw I am definitely looking for a smooth cut finish. Browsing Ebay the non-ferrous saws are fewer and more expensive.

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    So, a hundred parts is a large number for me, so I don’t cut any volume.

    But. . . .

    I bought a $100 Wellsaw that’s probably 30 years old and it cuts better than your saw.

    My material vendors start at $15 per cut and go up from there.

    Your band saw blade can play a huge part in the cut. I forget the name of the brand I have now. I was buying blades from McMaster and got a a few different brands. Bought one from my tool rep, and it has outlasted 3-1 the other saws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundog View Post
    Question about Cold saws I assume I need the non Ferrous models and the difference would be blade speed. If I go with a cold saw I am definitely looking for a smooth cut finish. Browsing Ebay the non-ferrous saws are fewer and more expensive.
    I have a 350mm Doringer Cold Saw. I can't go over about 5" tall without interfering with the blade hub. It's a 2 speed, 54 rpm is slow and 108 is fast. It works good for both steel and aluminum.

    But 1X4 flat bars (on edge) is as big as I cut on that saw, anything larger goes to the band saw. Smaller stuff, you can't beat the cold saw.

    There is an Ellis 1600 on CL, I think it's down in Salem. I think it's a dry saw though. There's also that outfit up in Auburn that sells Jet, he has a 10x18 listed for $4995. That's a pretty decent saw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundog View Post
    Question about Cold saws I assume I need the non Ferrous models and the difference would be blade speed. If I go with a cold saw I am definitely looking for a smooth cut finish. Browsing Ebay the non-ferrous saws are fewer and more expensive.

    Like Janco said, the ones with two speeds will handle aluminum and steel/stainless. The tooth shape probably should be material specific, but I use the same blades for everything as long as the wall thickness matches the pitch.

    And you won't eleminate the bandsaw, the 7" stuff isn't fitting on a cold saw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    Like Janco said, the ones with two speeds will handle aluminum and steel/stainless. The tooth shape probably should be material specific, but I use the same blades for everything as long as the wall thickness matches the pitch.
    I'd put an asterisk on the first part- I've seen ferrous cold saws that were 27/54 RPM, and 54 is too slow for aluminum- at least if you want to get through it in a reasonable time.

    I use a triple chip profile on everything. On aluminum I use 90T or 110T pitch, on steel and stainless solids I use a 180T. On stainless tubing, I use a 220T.

    I just had a blade made for stainless tubing with a 220T pitch and a BW profile, but I haven't tried it out yet.

    I also have a big Kalamazoo non-ferrous cold saw that I use for aluminum extrusions only. It uses carbide tipped blades and goes like a raped ape. I don't know how fast it is, but it screams. It makes beautiful square cuts, but it's noisy as hell and you don't run it without ear protection...

    @gundog- you are welcome to stop by my shop and try out the cold saws anytime. I'm just across the Fremont Bridge in PDX. If you have a bunch of sawing to do, you can load up your truck and just spend a half day knocking it all out on my machines. Won't bother me a bit.

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    I would suggest two saws ... for steel I use a large 14x14 power hacksaw, there not fast but they cut super square and i just bundle parts and let it cut well I am doing other stuff.. blades last for months and months and there super cheap on ebay ,,, you can get a nice larger old saws for super cheap ,, just don`t buy a junk one ,, there still is a lot of them out there that are in good shape .

    for alum there is nothing better than a good hi speed non-farrous saws.. they well drive you nuts with the noise, but they leave a close to mill finish and cut square ,, I picked up a 20" that spins 2,700 RPM for about 800 bucks. or you can use a up-cut saw ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundog View Post
    I currently use a Turn Pro 7" x 12" horizontal band saw it has a small coolant tank and has worked ok for the last 10+ years I bought it new from Enco. The problem I have with it is it doesn't cut square the bigger the material the worse it gets the pivot point is cast into the bed and they are not square it is off by about 3/16" over 7".
    I have a 9X16 Rockwell saw (American made POS) that did the same thing from new. We took it all apart, sent the bed out to be blanchard ground flat and parallel to the pivot axle. Reassembled it, and it still cut the same, and checked the same with a square as before the disassembly and grinding.
    . Long painful story short, it turned out that the hinge parts bolted to the moving head were mismachined. The pivot axle was not square to the blade guides in the long direction - left to right as you stand facing the output side of the saw. The head lifted in an arc to the side because of that. We took the hinge parts off and slotted the holes to allow more adjustment, put it back together correctly and it has cut square ever since. Like within .005 over 8", or as close as you can measure considering surface finish.

    And +1 for Lenox, we use 5-8 vari pitch for everything now, from .065 wall steel tubing to 8" diameter aluminum bar.


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