Mapping Digital Inputs On a 90's Hardinge T42 w/ 18-T Control

Nerdlinger · Oct 31, 2019

We use spring-loaded collet stops in the sub spindle (collet) to pop the part out when the collet opens. From time to time parts do not pop out and then you can guess what happens when the sub goes to pick off the next part... :ack2:

I imagine there is a way to sense if the part is there or not, maybe with some sort of....sensor...., but I am not sure if there is a way to input that signal into an....input....and then reference the state of that input in the program. I know it has macros enabled so I'm looking to do something like:

;
IF{DI7EQ1]GOTO100;
;

Or maybe an MFIN deal?

Does anyone know how to do this or if it even can be done on that machine/control??

Thank you!

Vancbiker · Oct 31, 2019

Fanuc has provided system variables #1000-#1015 (16 bits of input) and #1032 (reads all 16 bits) for reading inputs from devices connected to the PMC for use in Macros. The machine builder would have to provide logic in their ladder to make use of them. That has probably not been done. IME, it is quite rare for a builder to provide these for general use. More typical is when the builder is integrating peripheral equipment at the time the machine is ordered they will add logic to the ladder to allow use of these inputs when the peripheral equipment uses a macro to operate.

TeachMePlease · Nov 1, 2019

Does/Has Fanuc ever had a torque sense/skip option? My Mitsubishi Meldas controls have a G code for torque sensing where you can tell an axis to quit moving if it hits XX% of its rated thrust. Then you can check its position and compare it to the programmed position, and if they don't match, you can end the cycle, or record the difference (makes for cheap, easy in machine probing/offsetting with a dowel pin and an ER collet), etc. I know that control is old, so I'm guessing it may not have been an option back then, but sometimes Fanuc surprises me.

Nerdlinger · Nov 1, 2019

Vancbiker said:
Fanuc has provided system variables #1000-#1015 (16 bits of input) and #1032 (reads all 16 bits) for reading inputs from devices connected to the PMC for use in Macros. The machine builder would have to provide logic in their ladder to make use of them. That has probably not been done. IME, it is quite rare for a builder to provide these for general use. More typical is when the builder is integrating peripheral equipment at the time the machine is ordered they will add logic to the ladder to allow use of these inputs when the peripheral equipment uses a macro to operate.

The Hardinge distributor (Morris Midwest) finally got back to me and I think you are right. It sounds like it would require a modification to the ladder. I have played around with the ladder on Brother controls but not the old(er) Fanuc. I hope you can modify it right on the control instead of needing some separate software to do it and then upload it like programming a regular industrial PLC. Thanks!

Nerdlinger · Nov 1, 2019

TeachMePlease said:
Does/Has Fanuc ever had a torque sense/skip option? My Mitsubishi Meldas controls have a G code for torque sensing where you can tell an axis to quit moving if it hits XX% of its rated thrust. Then you can check its position and compare it to the programmed position, and if they don't match, you can end the cycle, or record the difference (makes for cheap, easy in machine probing/offsetting with a dowel pin and an ER collet), etc. I know that control is old, so I'm guessing it may not have been an option back then, but sometimes Fanuc surprises me.

That WOULD be sweet, but I'm quite sure I can't do that on this control. I remember reading about some add-on software that Fanuc came out with that would do just what you were saying - I figured I could always come in with some drill or cutoff or something to check to see if the part is there and if there is virtually ANY load in X assume the part is there and stop the machine. Thanks!

Vancbiker · Nov 1, 2019

Nerdlinger said:
.......I have played around with the ladder on Brother controls but not the old(er) Fanuc. I hope you can modify it right on the control instead of needing some separate software to do it and then upload it like programming a regular industrial PLC. Thanks!

Very doubtful that you will be able to edit the ladder at the machine. I have never seen a 16/18 series control set up to edit at the control. IIRC it required some additional hardware and very few builders want users to be able to mess up the ladder anyway. On the 16i/18i controls the ladder edit function was embedded. Could be password protected by the builder though. I did mess around with a Femco HBM with an 18i that had an unlocked ladder.

dandrummerman21 · Nov 1, 2019

If your machine has any spare m-codes with finish signal, you could have a switch in the machine (somehow, that is up to you!) that is open when there is a part in the sub, and closed when the part is successfully ejected. Hook the M-code to the switch so that the machine sees a finish signal when there's nothing in the sub.

If there's a part in the sub, the machine won't see a finish signal, and should hang there waiting for it to finish.

Not perfect but would prevent a crash.

Nerdlinger · Nov 1, 2019

dandrummerman21 said:
If your machine has any spare m-codes with finish signal, you could have a switch in the machine (somehow, that is up to you!) that is open when there is a part in the sub, and closed when the part is successfully ejected. Hook the M-code to the switch so that the machine sees a finish signal when there's nothing in the sub.

If there's a part in the sub, the machine won't see a finish signal, and should hang there waiting for it to finish.

Not perfect but would prevent a crash.

That is precisely what I am looking to do!

Vancbiker · Nov 1, 2019

dandrummerman21 said:
If your machine has any spare m-codes with finish signal, you could have a switch in the machine (somehow, that is up to you!) that is open when there is a part in the sub, and closed when the part is successfully ejected. Hook the M-code to the switch so that the machine sees a finish signal when there's nothing in the sub.

If there's a part in the sub, the machine won't see a finish signal, and should hang there waiting for it to finish.

Not perfect but would prevent a crash.

Whether you could get that to work will depend some on how the M-code has been programmed in the ladder and how to input MFIN.

M-Codes can be one-shot or latched. One shot M-codes are exactly that. They output a pulse and can either be programmed to generate MFIN internally or be programmed for an external MFIN. If the M-code is latched then there will be a complementary M-code to unlatch it. Again, the MFIN signal can be internal or external. Very rare to see internal MFIN on a latched M-code, but not uncommon on a one-shot. An example of a one-shot M-code with internal MFIN would be a tap oil squirter. Latched M-code example would be like 4 axis clamp/unclamp on a mill.

MFIN has to be a pulsed signal. Typically this done with logic in the ladder. When an input for M code complete turns on, it is converted to a pulse by logic so that MFIN is not held on. When MFIN is held on then it is not available for subsequent M-codes to use. Most spare M-codes have MFIN linked with no logic in the ladder to a physical input. The logic to pulse MFIN is then needed external to the ladder. When I have done things like this, I use a timer relay to create the pulse.

greggv · Nov 1, 2019

use a laser sensor or a proximity switch to see if the part is in there, and tie the output to the feed hold switch?

TeachMePlease · Nov 2, 2019

Maybe a dumb suggestion, maybe not... Could you just program in a safety move, like a dowel pin that swipes across the face of the sub at a low feedrate to knock a hung up part out of the sub? Or a magnet, if they're magnetic parts?

Vancbiker · Nov 2, 2019

TeachMePlease said:
Does/Has Fanuc ever had a torque sense/skip option? .....

There is an option for torque skip on a Fanuc 16/18 series. It is a variation of G31. Can be applied to spindle drive or axis drive. Implementation of it is determined by the machine builder through their ladder program. I've seen it used to detect part-off failure from main to sub and for chuck to chuck part transfer on main to sub.

Nerdlinger · Nov 3, 2019

greggv said:
use a laser sensor or a proximity switch to see if the part is in there, and tie the output to the feed hold switch?

Yeah, I imagine it’s not too difficult to find where the wires from the button go to in the cabinet so we don’t have to actually crack into the control panel. It would be nice to have a spare M code output to activate whatever sensor we’re talking about. Then we wouldn’t have to screw with the ladder, either. (Of course, MFIN would be better). I’ll have to look into the spare M’s.... Thanks!

Nerdlinger · Nov 3, 2019

TeachMePlease said:
Maybe a dumb suggestion, maybe not... Could you just program in a safety move, like a dowel pin that swipes across the face of the sub at a low feedrate to knock a hung up part out of the sub? Or a magnet, if they're magnetic parts?

It IS exclusively steel parts so a magnet could work but sometimes the parts are pretty stuck in there and not just “dangling.”

BROTHERFRANK · Nov 3, 2019

How about something like a BK Mikro whisker? You can give them a call. They are in Wisconsin. They could tell you if it's possible to integrate on your machine.

Nerdlinger · Nov 3, 2019

Vancbiker said:
There is an option for torque skip on a Fanuc 16/18 series. It is a variation of G31. Can be applied to spindle drive or axis drive. Implementation of it is determined by the machine builder through their ladder program. I've seen it used to detect part-off failure from main to sub and for chuck to chuck part transfer on main to sub.

Veeeery interesting! It looks like this a G-code-activated command that, when active, will alarm out if some parameter-set axis load is exceeded??

Vancbiker · Nov 3, 2019

You need to see if your machine builder made any provision to use the the torque skip function. Fanuc provides the capability, but how it would be used is determined by the machine builder.

PROBE · Nov 3, 2019

Vancbiker said:
You need to see if your machine builder made any provision to use the the torque skip function. Fanuc provides the capability, but how it would be used is determined by the machine builder.

The torque skip as suggested by Vancbiker, would be (if applicable) the most elegant solution. But if not applicable, the standard SKIP input (normally X4.7), present on all F18 I ever seen, can serve you as sensing port to the control. I use this solution in cases in which machine supplier does not supply free variable controllable inputs. Of course, applicable sensor should applied (proximity switch ?).

Nerdlinger · Nov 4, 2019

PROBE said:
The torque skip as suggested by Vancbiker, would be (if applicable) the most elegant solution. But if not applicable, the standard SKIP input (normally X4.7), present on all F18 I ever seen, can serve you as sensing port to the control. I use this solution in cases in which machine supplier does not supply free variable controllable inputs. Of course, applicable sensor should applied (proximity switch ?).

I’m working on determining if Hardinge uses the torque skip option made available on the control.

I looked in the parameter manual and you are correct - X4.7! But there is little explanation on that in the manual. Can you elaborate on how to use that? Does that bit change states when a signal is sent to some terminal somewhere, upon which it stops the machine??

Thank you!

Vancbiker · Nov 4, 2019

Nerdlinger said:
....I looked in the parameter manual and you are correct - X4.7! But there is little explanation on that in the manual. Can you elaborate on how to use that? Does that bit change states when a signal is sent to some terminal somewhere, upon which it stops the machine?

Skip signal is used in conjunction with the G31 command and an axis move. The typical use is with a probe, but any device capable of switching a 24VDC signal can be used to trigger. Essentially the "Skip" portion is that an axis movement will be stopped at the time the skip signal changes state "skipping" the remainder of the commanded move and executing the next program block. In your application you would attempt to eject the part from the sub, then command an axis move with G31. The next line of the program would be a condition check of the axis position. If the move reached the target position then the part was ejected and the program continues normally. If the axis stopped early because the skip signal turned on during the motion then that means the part is still present and then the program branches to a Macro alarm which stops the machine and displays an operator message alerting them to the stuck part.

Mapping Digital Inputs On a 90's Hardinge T42 w/ 18-T Control

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Diamond

Similar threads