Matsuura MC-760VX, Yasnac MX3 Serial Communications problems - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooperstock View Post
    Ahhh, it might be starting to get through my thick skull. lol

    Setting the Machine to 'Use control characters' and the software to 'Software handshake' allows all the control to be coordinated through the TD and RD (pins 2 and 3).

    Pin 7 DB25 connected to pin 5 DB9 is the ground reference for these signals.

    The machine is set to use 'send control codes' but does that mean it is using the correct codes for the laptop? I do not see any way to configure or specify the control codes that the machine is actually using.

    I will double check the loop backs.

    Also, I know grounding loops can cause issues. The shield of the serial cable is tied to the ground (pin 1) of the DB25 connector. Is this the correct method? The shield is not connected to the laptop side. the only 'ground' is the pin 5 coming in for the serial data.

    Is there a way to find what the parity should be set to? or will that just be trial and error once I start getting data?

    Final question for today: Do I need the EOB ';' character at the end of each line of the text file to be uploaded? I have added it but not sure if it helps or hurts.

    I am uploading a simple 3 line code that just sets the basic machine setup. Its longer than 10 characters.
    Hello Cooperstock,
    With regards to the Ground Loop. Correct, connect the Protective Ground (pin 1 of the Control's DB25 Connector) to the Shield Trace Wire - Do Not connect it at the PC End.

    The Basis Protocol to use is:
    Data Bits = 7
    Stop Bits = 1
    Parity = Even
    Baud Rate = 4800 (Starting Point in setting Comms up)
    Handshake Method = Xon/Xoff (Software)

    Stop bits are bit length periods of time at the current Baud Rate. Accordingly, either 1 or 2 will work provided the setting at the External Device is the same as the control.

    When creating a program at the PC, you do not include ';' character that represents the EOB at the control. Parameter Bit 6003 D3 is set at the control to specify what represents the EOB, but it has more to do with the data being sent to the External Device than that which is incoming. Set to 0, LF (Line Feed) will be determined as the EOB and sent by the Control. Set to 1, CRLF (Carriage Return - Line Feed) will be determined as the EOB by the Control. If this parameter is set to '0', only a LF will be sent to the External Device and dependent on how the Software handles this, (the author may handle it in a particular way), the program may be just strung out across the screen in a series of rows, but not aligned with the Left Margin of the screen.

    Regards,

    Bill
    Last edited by angelw; 01-22-2019 at 02:30 AM.

  2. #22
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    Can i unplug the tape reader and try that serial interface?
    Using the loopback cable with software hand shake and control codes used on the machine i still get the 077 error.
    My next steps are to check the pin wires on the machines db25 to verify they go to the correct pins on the CN6 connector to the main board.
    Side note, i can read the parameters out of the machine just fine. Just doesnt work from laptop into the machine.
    I also may try hardware handshakeing next

  3. #23
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    update for today:
    I greatly shortened the serial cable from laptop to the machine (cut out around 20 ft, I know length shouldn't be an issue but just trying stuff) I double checked the loop back wires on the computer side (DB9, 1,4,6 together and 7,8 together) and the wires on the machine side (6,8,20 together and 4,5 together).
    I found part of the manual that talks about the serial wire to the tape reader and for grins I made a second serial cable that connected the pins as shown except one of the connections that I think is specifically for rewinding the tape. That cable didn't work either.
    I am currently set at
    2400 baud
    2 stop bits (I changed the setting)
    software handshaking

    I changed laptops so I can try windows hyper terminal directly.
    no improved results

    I checked the pins from the machines db25 to the CN6 connector that connects to the main board, at least RD TD and Gnd were correct, I didn't check the other ones. I do have a 25pin serial checker and a 9pin serial checker.
    Without the laptop connected, here is the machine status:
    Machine is waiting
    machinewait.jpg


    Machine is 'listening' so the 'in' button has been pressed. The RTS line comes high
    rts.jpg

    Here is the machine sending data blindly with the 'out' button pressed. It clearly sends without a computer connected on the other side, seems it would indicate the hand shaking isn't working (right?)
    sending.jpg

    I then connect the laptop to the db25. This is the lights with the laptop connected but the machines in idle state (not listening for data)
    laptop-inactive.jpg

    I then press 'in' on the machine and it pulls the lines high
    laptop-.jpg

    What I have noticed is if I try to send the data, I get a TH parity error, if I then press 'in' again the computer starts to send data again for about 20-30 characters but then I get an 'input' error.
    I never see anything in the machines memory

    I tried typing single commands into the hypertermal and pressing 'enter' to send them when the machine is listening for data and the first thing I send will cause the 'LSK' signal to go away. the second thing I send will cause 'Input error' to happen.

    Is there a chance the machine doesn't take ASCII for some reason?
    I am assuming things like G40 G80 G90 will accepted by the machine. Any suggestions of code I should be trying?

    Im not sure where to go from here...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooperstock View Post
    Here is the machine sending data blindly with the 'out' button pressed. It clearly sends without a computer connected on the other side, seems it would indicate the hand shaking isn't working (right?)
    sending.jpg
    Hello Cooperstock,
    To the above question, not so. The control will continue to send data until an Xoff (DC3 - ASCII 19) is received. The control doesn't require an Xon to Start Sending. Because the Control is not connected to an External Device, it won't receive an Xoff and therefore, will continue to send the complete program.

    When sending data to the control from an external device, most Comms software will give the option to:

    1. Send Immediately,
    or
    2. Wait for the Machine to initiate the data transfer.

    In the first scenario, the Control must be made ready to receive data and then the External Software is made send the data. If the Control is not made ready, the External Software will send the program when made to send it and the program goes nowhere (the control has not been made ready and therefore, receives nothing). Because the Control is not ready and therefore, not receiving data, it never sends an Xoff to the External Device to control the data flow.

    In the second scenario, the PC will be made ready to send data to the Control, but waits for the Control to initiate the transfer by sending an Xon. The handshaking is taken care of by the Uart of each device (Machine Control and External Device). Accordingly, the External Software never gets to see the Xon/Xoff characters when in Xon/Xoff Mode. This poses a small problem when the Software is set for Xon/Xoff Handshaking, as the Software waiting for the Control to start the transfer, will never see the Xon. In my own Comms Software, when set to use Xon/Xoff Handshaking, it waits for the Control to initiate the transfer in No Handshake Mode. In this mode, the Software will see all data sent to it and as soon as it receives the first Xon sent by the Control, it immediately changes to Xon/Xoff Mode and the Uart takes care of Handshaking.

    List all the parameter settings you have set at the control for RS232 Comms.

    Regards,

    Bill

  5. #25
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    I will get all the settings from both sides listed, i will double check them before putting them up here.

    as a side note, for transferring data to the machine I always start the machine first with 'reset' then 'in' then tell the computer to send the data. I have not tried initiating the computer first.

    When I have sent data from the machine to the computer, I have always started the sending from the machine first

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooperstock View Post
    as a side note, for transferring data to the machine I always start the machine first with 'reset' then 'in' then tell the computer to send the data. I have not tried initiating the computer first.
    Hello Cooperstock,
    That will normally work, but is contingent on how the External Software is set to send. If set for the machine to initiate the transfer, it will have missed the Xon sent by the machine and will simply continue to wait. The following picture is of my own software showing how the two methods of transfer to the machine are set. Most Comms Software will have something similar.

    nc-editor-send1.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooperstock View Post
    When I have sent data from the machine to the computer, I have always started the sending from the machine first
    This will not work, or at best you will only capture the code not already sent by the control after the External Software was set to receive. The control doesn't require a Handshake from the External Device to start sending.

    Regards,

    Bill
    Last edited by angelw; 02-13-2019 at 06:29 AM.

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    It would appear that the codes between the machine and computer are not talking correctly. The machine will send ('out') data without waiting for the laptop to send the code, likewise it appears if I try to send data/code from the laptop to the machine it will send without waiting for the machine to send the start code.
    I will dig into the settings to see if there is some place to set the 'wait for the start code'.
    Bill, what DNC software are you using?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooperstock View Post
    It would appear that the codes between the machine and computer are not talking correctly. The machine will send ('out') data without waiting for the laptop to send the code, likewise it appears if I try to send data/code from the laptop to the machine it will send without waiting for the machine to send the start code.
    I will dig into the settings to see if there is some place to set the 'wait for the start code'.

    Hello Cooperstock,
    As I stated in my Post#26, the control does not require a Start Code to Start Sending data to an External Device. It will send the data whether a device is connected or not.

    Solution:
    Get the External Device ready to Receive before Sending the data from the Control.

    With regards to the External Device Software not waiting for the Control to send a Start Code, this is contingent of how the Software is set, either to Wait for the Machine, or Send Immediately. It would appear that your Laptop Software is set to Send Immediately and not Waite for the Control.

    Solution:
    Get the Control Ready to Receive a program first and then have the External Device Software send the data once the Control has been made ready.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooperstock View Post
    Bill, what DNC software are you using?
    My own. The picture attached to my previous Post shows the Software being made ready to Send a program to the Control.

    Regards,

    Bill

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    IME, that is normal behavior with XON/XOFF handshake.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    IME, that is normal behavior with XON/XOFF handshake.
    Hello Kevin,
    Indeed it is. With Hardware Handshaking, as you would know, voltage on the Control Lines determine if and when data is transmitted. Accordingly, there is no waiting for the Xon Character to be sent, nor the chance of missing this code should be Control be made ready to Receive first and then the External Device Software made to send when its set to wait for the Control.

    With Hardware Handshaking, if and when a device is ready to Send, or Receive is determined purely on voltage.

    Regards,

    Bill

  11. #31
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    Hmm, so I have always been starting the 'device' (the machine) to receive before attempting to send from the laptop.
    I will get all of the machine settings and laptop settings here in a couple hours when I go work on the machine again.

    Since I am using a loopback cable there is no hardware handshaking possible without changing the cable (correct?)

    From all of your input, if I have understood you correctly what I need to achieve is
    1. machine and computer are set to the same handshake (use codes in this case for software handshaking)
    2. Same baud rate
    3. same Stop bits
    4. same parity

    It seems the overflow error (077) is related to handshaking, as in the laptop doesn't know to stop sending data to the machine.

    Do I need to be able to change delay time between characters or lines for the machine to have time to process the incoming data?

    How does parity check fall into this equation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelw View Post
    Hello Kevin,
    Indeed it is. With Hardware Handshaking, as you would know, voltage on the Control Lines determine if and when data is transmitted. Accordingly, there is no waiting for the Xon Character to be sent, nor the chance of missing this code should be Control be made ready to Receive first and then the External Device Software made to send when its set to wait for the Control.

    With Hardware Handshaking, if and when a device is ready to Send, or Receive is determined purely on voltage.

    Regards,

    Bill
    Hi Bill,

    I use hardware handshaking on my personal machine. Much easier to post code and then press the send command and then go to the machine and press input and have it all come in. Otherwise, I'd post the code then have to go to the machine, press input then back to the computer and press send. It's only 10 or so feet, but I'm lazy.

    I may have asked this before....

    Is your comms software just for your personal use or do you sell it? Not that I am in need but am curious.


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