Matsuura RA-IF wont run after bad tool change, help!

I have a 1995 Matsuura RA-IF with a Yasnac controller that I bought a couple months ago. After getting all the bugs worked out and figuring out how to work the controller and import files I had it running great but in the middle of running a program my air pressure got low while doing a tool change and I had to manually put the tool arm back into home position. Since I've done that I can't get anything to run in MDI or Tape mode. I can control everything in Handle mode with no issues but I can't do a tool change or run the spindle. The crazy thing is that I don't get any alarm codes, it just wont work. Any help to get my machine up and running again would be greatly appreciated!!

When you say your air got low do you mean lack of air pressure caused the tool change to fail, or lack of pressure caused the machine air pressure sensor to kill the machine mid stroke on the tool change?

If the first thing is true, you might want to start there and either fix the air pressure sensor, or if missing install one. I like Matsuuras. Still I'm not familiar with Yasnac but I bet it's supposed to have an air pressure sensor. They're usually one of the first things you'll see after the main input air Filter/Regulator setup. If the second scenario is true, maybe something following will help you get things running again.

If you have diagnostics of sorts where you can verify machine conditions, all these things need to be satisfied for a tool change. And if the machine is left in an offhand state, that might be what's holding things up.

Z at Home Position
Arm at Home Position
Pot Up
Pot Not Down
Spindle Orient
May even have a carousel position detect.
And some obvious things like Spindle Not Turning and Coolant Off. And let's not forget, Air Pressure Okay.

Some times machines get confused as to their actual conditions. I've had a couple instances after tearing machines apart and putting back together where everything seemed like it should work but wouldn't. I actually had to either touch off 24VDC or ground an input to set the machine straight. Don't remember exactly. I believe failed tool changes can be confusing for controls as well.

Hey thanks for the reply! Yes lack of air pressure in the middle of the tool change made the tool arm not complete the change but everything stayed powered on and I didn't get any alarm so I just moved the arm back by hand and turned the machine off and on and it wont allow anything to run in MDI mode or Tape mode. My air on my compressor actually got low and I didn't notice it until after this happen. The machine is getting air and everything it needs it just wont work in those modes now. I can even move the tool changer with the switch on the back. I don't get any alarms and everything looks fine. Someone suggested to push the aux2 button and the machine should tell me what it needs but that didn't work. I will put a video link in here of the machine and the problem. Its a great machine and I got it from the original owner. Unfortunately I can't use it now

If you pushed the arm back to what appears to be the parked position, I would suspect that there is a switch that is not turned on because the arm is not truly at the parked position. Look in the wiring diagram for a switch labeled something like ATC Home or similar. If you find something like that, look at the Diagnostic number associated with it. 1 means on and 0 means off.

I know the feeling. Everything seems like it should work but it doesn't. Right now you're in a visual state of proof that the machine is okay and should do a tool change. But guess what? The control cares not what you see, it only cares about what it knows for fact. Go through the diagnostics I listed above. Make sure the machine control in the land of Bits thinks everything is as it should be. That's all that matters.

Hopefully you have the electrical and ladder manuals for the machine. If you got it from the original owner as you said and didn't get the manuals, hunt him down and beg if you have to for the manuals.

It might even be a good idea to call the guy and ask him if this ever happened to him and what he did to eventually fix it. Might be surprised what he knows.

Can you run tool changes in Auto Mode via program input? Maybe a few successful attempts there will get things square again.

Edit: Or do like Vancbiker suggests. Sounds like a good first place to start. Especially seeing as that's as far as it got to begin with.

Awesome ill do that first thing tomorrow. I really appreciate the help!

Great I will try all that and get back to you. is there a way to make the arm go into its correct position without having to use a M code? Like maybe a switch that will cycle it on the machine or in the cabinet somewhere?

I suspect you've done this but I didn't read it so...
It's been over 15 years since I ran a RA-1F but I remember a little.
When you are resetting the tool changer by turning that flat post on the bottom you have to look inside (remove the cover to see it) at the limit switch lights. Just far enough to turn it on (or off I don't recall). Did you do that when you were recovering from the low air alarm?
Sorry if I'm stating something you've already done.

Hey thanks for the response! I didn't do that when I reset the arm, the machine is new to me so I wasn't sure what to look for when putting the arm back into position. now that I have put it back though it seems to be locked in place and I can't move it anymore. Is the light to look for in the center of the arm? Thanks again.

Heres a video response to all of the help people have given me! I talked to Yamzen after I made this vid and they gave me a couple of things to try also, so I will update everyone after I try those. Thanks and wish me good luck!

Since the ATC position light is on and you can move the Z axis, that tells me that the arm is home. Since the spindle will not turn on it may be that the spindle is in the tool unclamped condition. Since there is no tool in the spindle it is real simple to check that. If you can put a tool in the spindle by hand and it seats or almost seats in the taper then it is unclamped. If it does not go in and stops way short of seating (like 1/2"+) then the spindle is clamped.

i have the same machine in my shop now.
when you press the aux keys do you see any messages?
When you scroll thru the alarm screeens(3 of them) do any numbers come up.
i know it seems dumb but when my RA has low air i usually have to hit reset a few times to clear it

Your tool change system is really 3 different devices that work together.

1. Tool magazine

2, Tool arm (changer)

3. Spindle.

Chris 59 is referring to the tool arm. Don't have any idea what it takes to get the cover off. On my machines, not Matsuuras, I can see all the position sensors(Hall effect) from the top. Most likely will be lit when in position.

Vancbiker said:

Since the ATC position light is on and you can move the Z axis, that tells me that the arm is home. Since the spindle will not turn on it may be that the spindle is in the tool unclamped condition.

Click to expand...

I think we've got a winner here!

Tool Unclamped... missed that one. Damn. Got one machine that can't be left unclamped and one that can. The one that can is by far the newer of the two. Probably why it hasn't sunk in yet.

And 3 screens to get through all the alarm pages? Sounds like Fanuc style button pushing. :-)

I got it fixed!!!!! Soooo awesome!!! Thanks to everyone for the help, you guys are great. I'll post a video of the problem and the solution so if anyone else runs into this they can follow along.

Congrats on a successful fix! Don't forget where you found that Diagnostics page. You might need it again some day. The trick will be to find the addresses in your manuals corresponding to what each one of those bits are signifying. Get that figured out and you can consider yourself graduated form CNC Machine Tool Fixing School class 101.

The air coming out of the back of your spindle is likely normal. Many spindles, and especially built in ones where the spindle shaft and motor shaft are one in the same, use a small positive pressure inside the spindle housing to keep out all the bad things like coolant, nasty air and whatever else wants to bother it. They can be air hogs and keep your compressor running for its life. Not familiar with Matsuura's setup but I'm pretty sure it's as it should be. If your spindle is oil fed from a small mister device, that's likely more proof that things are as they should be. If you do have the mister, you may find something about the mister in your manuals about periodic filter cleaning and what oil type(s) to use.

Must say... and old-ish pallet changing Matsuura would be welcome around here. Almost bought a 5 pallet horizontal once, but the old dusty looking monster circuit boards scared me away.

13engines said:

Congrats on a successful fix! Don't forget where you found that Diagnostics page. You might need it again some day. The trick will be to find the addresses in your manuals corresponding to what each one of those bits are signifying. Get that figured out and you can consider yourself graduated form CNC Machine Tool Fixing School class 101.

The air coming out of the back of your spindle is likely normal. Many spindles, and especially built in ones where the spindle shaft and motor shaft are one in the same, use a small positive pressure inside the spindle housing to keep out all the bad things like coolant, nasty air and whatever else wants to bother it. They can be air hogs and keep your compressor running for its life. Not familiar with Matsuura's setup but I'm pretty sure it's as it should be. If your spindle is oil fed from a small mister device, that's likely more proof that things are as they should be. If you do have the mister, you may find something about the mister in your manuals about periodic filter cleaning and what oil type(s) to use.

Must say... and old-ish pallet changing Matsuura would be welcome around here. Almost bought a 5 pallet horizontal once, but the old dusty looking monster circuit boards scared me away.

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the help! Im glad to know the air coming out of the spindle is normal. The machine runs flawless other than that. I have two machines with pallet changers i'd sell if you really need one