milling chuck VS sidelock - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Medical shop running multiple VMCs and HMCs with a lot of shrink fit holders, 20/6, no cleaning done by operators when swapping tools. Pull the old one, swap the new one in. Run like that for at least the last five years that I know of. No issues.
    Shrink fit holders take too long to set up.

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    Yes, the power grip is a great system. I have used them in the past. But in your post you state...

    "I prefer the rego-fix collet system over anything. I do not like the hydro chucks only because of the operator maintenance needed."

    I asked what maintenance are you talking about. You said...

    "Cleaning. Chips an grit are devastating to hydro holders"

    I think we can all agree that hydraulic holders are much easier to clean that powergrip tool holders. I am not trying to be problematic or pick a fight. Dont misunderstand me. I am just trying to understand what customers like and why.

    Tool holding is my business. In order to do a proper job in supplying a product line I need to know how other people work with these products and what they like. Thank you !!

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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Tool holding is my business. In order to do a proper job in supplying a product line I need to know how other people work with these products and what they like. Thank you !!
    Letterkenny

    capture2.jpg

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by CORONA VIRUS View Post
    Shrink fit holders take too long to set up.
    Huh? With a proper induction machine its something 30 seconds or so to heat, a couple minutes to cool, unless you cheaped out on that and have to wait for them to cool in the air. (I used a Haimer). They are damn pricey though compared to a collet wrench or a hex key.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Huh? With a proper induction machine its something 30 seconds or so to heat, a couple minutes to cool, unless you cheaped out on that and have to wait for them to cool in the air. (I used a Haimer). They are damn pricey though compared to a collet wrench or a hex key.

    A couple minutes? YOU must have cheaped out.

    Integrated coolant tank, or bust.

    Bilz ISG3410WK Shrink Fit Machine Demo - Cutwel TV - YouTube

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  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CORONA VIRUS View Post
    Shrink fit holders take too long to set up.
    LOL what? Shrink fit holders are super fast, it takes 15 seconds to shrink a tool in and a few minutes to cool if you have a proper machine (haimer/techniks etc).

    I have Frank's shrink fit machine so I cool my tools the slow way but if I really need to get something in the machine fast I can get it in there in less than 5 minutes but just running the assembly under water.

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  10. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    A couple minutes? YOU must have cheaped out.

    Integrated coolant tank, or bust.

    Bilz ISG3410WK Shrink Fit Machine Demo - Cutwel TV - YouTube
    I'm new to the shrink fit game, is it really ok to immediately submerge the holder in water like that?

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    I actually recommend if you need to cool it, use air blow. Much less of a shock to the tool holder and you dont need to worry about any rusting. I have a unit that uses air blow and tool holder is completely cool in 3-4 minutes.

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    I use Franks' machine too.

    Option 1: Setup a spare tool before you need it, doesn't matter how slow it cools.
    Option 2: Setup the shrink tools for a job first, then let them cool while setting up the other tools.
    Option 3: Swap the tool when it needs it, blow with air for a minute, then rinse with water to room temp.

    Yes it's slower than a collet, but not by terribly much, and it's much more rigid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    I think we can all agree that hydraulic holders are much easier to clean that powergrip tool holders.
    Yup, there's nothing faster than a nominal sized hydraulic, e.g. Schunk Tendo Platinum (not Tendo E, which require a collet for anything smaller than 3/4").

    Clean the tool nose before removing the tool, and the bore stays clean. A quick air blow just in case, and you're ready to go.

    Frank, please make these in smaller sizes too. 1/4" and 3/8". My machinists love em for frequently beat up tools like chamfer mills. They pay for themselves in labor savings very quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    I'm new to the shrink fit game, is it really ok to immediately submerge the holder in water like that?
    No idea, Frank would be more of an expert on that than I am. I just know that's the machine I have (or one very much like it), it's sold by one of the big guys, so it's probably ok? Or maybe they sell it so they can sell you more holders, Iunno...

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    From a metallurgical standpoint Cooling evenly and slowly (3-4 minutes) will be better than cooling with water (5-10 seconds).

    Also, no data is available but I think one can argue that you will have better concentricity with air cooling than water cooling. Maybe the difference would be in the millionths, I don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    Yup, there's nothing faster than a nominal sized hydraulic, e.g. Schunk Tendo Platinum (not Tendo E, which require a collet for anything smaller than 3/4").

    Clean the tool nose before removing the tool, and the bore stays clean. A quick air blow just in case, and you're ready to go.

    Frank, please make these in smaller sizes too. 1/4" and 3/8". My machinists love em for frequently beat up tools like chamfer mills. They pay for themselves in labor savings very quickly.
    Working on 1/2 and 3/4. Will have 6mm and 1/4" in the future. I dont see a problem with 3/8.

  19. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    I'm new to the shrink fit game, is it really ok to immediately submerge the holder in water like that?
    I wouldn't know for sure, but Haimer told us if you re-heat a holder without cooling before the next heat cycle it will void the warranty on toolholder, and it damages them somehow. The haimer machine with cooling was a sleeve you dropped over tool and holder that ran a chiller setup circulating coolant around the ring. I wouldn't imagine taking a holder from that hot into water would be good though, maybe with some sort of pre-cool down time, then a dunk in water to finish...??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I wouldn't know for sure, but Haimer told us if you re-heat a holder without cooling before the next heat cycle it will void the warranty on toolholder, and it damages them somehow. The haimer machine with cooling was a sleeve you dropped over tool and holder that ran a chiller setup circulating coolant around the ring. I wouldn't imagine taking a holder from that hot into water would be good though, maybe with some sort of pre-cool down time, then a dunk in water to finish...??
    I've seen guys warp tool holders by heating them twice in a row because they didn't get a tool all the way in or out. The holder went right into the trash as soon as someone who knew what they were doing saw it.

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    Ive been using a Techniks Quencher for a few months here. Its like the Bilz unit, using coolant spray to cool the tool, then spraying it off with an air blast. You can hold the tool holder once it comes back to the top.
    It came with a bunch of used Techniks holders. Does seem a little extreme to cool the holder that fast but the ones Ive loaded up with tools and checked have little runout so far.

    Techniks recommends a Cimcool coolant but whatever is in there sends up a nasty smelling cloud when it hits a hot holder. Ive been using a fan but I like that fume extractor on the Bilz.

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    This is just my 2cents.
    But if you can't wait 3-4 minutes for a tool then you should have multiple tools preset already so the 3-4 minutes don't affect you. If you are exchanging a lot of holders you can just skip the cool down cycle on most units. Just use some tool holder pliers or special gloves and put the still hot tool holder on a cart on the side and continue with the next holder.

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  24. #78
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    I usually have enough holders laying around that I can prep my tooling before my programming is even finished so that by the time I get to the machine the tools have cooled off. Honestly I don't change tools in the holders that often, once it is in its in until it fails, which doesn't happen all that often. If I were only cutting steels this would obvi be a different story.

    Ive never warped a holder from over heating or multiple heating...sometimes I get my 1/8 stuck in there and it refuses to get out but eventually it does. Holder is fine. Shrink holders are cycle rated for hundreds or thousands of uses.

    I don't submerge usually...Ill either air cool for 10 min and run it in the sink if I want to put it in the machine right then and there...or I will air blast cool it for a few minutes and then water.

    Mostly I just wait 30 minutes and its all good to go. I haven't shocked a carbide tool yet so for us it works fine, but YMMV. I wouldn't recommend rapid temp shifts but then again, Techiks and Haimer both use super fast cooling so I am a bit clueless on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I wouldn't know for sure, but Haimer told us if you re-heat a holder without cooling before the next heat cycle it will void the warranty on toolholder, and it damages them somehow. The haimer machine with cooling was a sleeve you dropped over tool and holder that ran a chiller setup circulating coolant around the ring. I wouldn't imagine taking a holder from that hot into water would be good though, maybe with some sort of pre-cool down time, then a dunk in water to finish...??
    This to me...I am no metallurgist but why that would void any warranty is beyond me.

    Wait tooling has a warranty??? HA!

    I've (not smartly) had trouble getting small tools out of my holders and heated them red hot...and the holder is still going strong. Throwing a toolholder in the garbage for doing multiple heat cycles in a row sounds, well like a waste of money.

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    Kind of off topic, but reading through this thread raised a question for me. I noticed some guys mentioning lubricating, or greasing the threads and collet taper. I was never taught to do this. I usually wipe/blow.it clean, and just let the residual coolant do the lubricating. Is greasing that important? What grease/oil do you guys use? What about the SK Collet nuts with the bearing disc?

    On our newer machines, we use, almost exclusively Big Kaiser or Lyndex dual contact holders (BT40, and CAT50). The CAT50 machine I program for mostly, gets primarily Lyndex SK holders, because I was always taught that side locks are no bueno, and to avoid them if possible, and we always seem way too busy to really do any comparison.


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