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  1. #201
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    Once again I'm really late to the party, but to the original poster who was thinking about converting a small hobby mill to CNC:

    The comment was made that only $1000 was available to spend and at least a hundred hours to work on the project.

    When I first tried machining I bought a Unimat modular kit. Now this makes a Harbor Freight or Sherline tool look like a massive high end machine. This mill was half made of plastic, it was was a child's toy save for the sharp hss tooling and rotating components. I cut my losses very quickly with the hobby approach.

    I was very fortunate that although I was extremely restricted in terms of budget that I took this path because it taught me very early that if you are going to do machining, any machining at all with any seriousness you need to open your wallet and go buy some industrial grade equipment (Fanuc, Siemens, Heidenhain). Spending your money on anything less is a complete waste not only because it will produce such poor results, but also because of how much of your life you are going to waste with very little to show for it when you are done. People will say "But you will learn valuable lessons in the process", sure you will, basically what you will learn is the same as what you would learn if you decided to make a computer with vacuum tubes: There is a better way. Don't fool yourself into thinking that starting from such humble roots you will get fundamentals that will give you advantage over everyone else. You have a limited time on this earth and you should give yourself the tools you need to achieve your goal, which is to machine parts.

    Once I was done with the Unimat I saved up and bought a Kitamura CNC Mill off of Ebay and completely tore it apart to make sure it wasn't harming itself as it ran. Now this is a better way to start in the industry, get a machine with a control that will likely resemble something you will use later (Investment of your time in scaleable knowledge), and if you crash the machine you at least aren't crashing something you paid a large sum of money for. Since I have started I have built up hundreds of thousands of pounds of CNC's and if I were to be able to go back to when I was starting I would give this advice:

    If you want to get into machining, take some classes at school to get your hands on real machines. The cost is low relatively and the instruction will get you in track much faster. The classes are investment and give you mentors to help fast track your path to being really productive. Next if you are still thinking of getting a machine, not only go industrial grade but something with a good reputation for reliability and low hours. This will be expensive but long term it will not be.

    CNC Machining = The more you spend the less costly it will be. Get high quality machines, higher rigidity and better spindles give better tool life, faster controls/drives/servos will keep the tool cutting in the manner your CAM intended, also increasing life and improving the quality of your parts as well as lowering your cycle times.

    If you decide to start a business machining eventually the costs that really start to hurt are scrap parts, wasted man hours, broken tools. I have spent more in tooling for a single job than I spent on the whole machine that ran the job. If you buy cheap tooling, you may just not succeed in making the part at all.

    Get through spindle coolant, you'll thank yourself later. Drilling can be expensive, pretty much anything "deep" get's expensive.

    Basically CNC machining is expensive. It's like horses, if you don't have much money just find a friend that has one and use theirs.

    Nerv

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    He's at least blessed with that, then.

    Were it otherwise? He might have a handle that decoded to:

    "can't reproduce. lonely, alas"
    What are you saying???

  4. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Definitely personal preference but imo this would look awful if you did it on an nc machine ...

    possible solution to our electricity problem

    While you're there,

    what modern equipment will be running in 130 years ?

    best of all

    now THIS is how you control motor speed !
    already own all 3 fans, now what??

  5. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by crlalas View Post
    What are you saying???
    xlation: "Your too young, arrogant, and stoopid to understand"

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  7. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerv View Post
    Once again I'm really late to the party, but to the original poster who was thinking about converting a small hobby mill to CNC:

    The comment was made that only $1000 was available to spend and at least a hundred hours to work on the project.

    When I first tried machining I bought a Unimat modular kit. Now this makes a Harbor Freight or Sherline tool look like a massive high end machine. This mill was half made of plastic, it was was a child's toy save for the sharp hss tooling and rotating components. I cut my losses very quickly with the hobby approach.

    I was very fortunate that although I was extremely restricted in terms of budget that I took this path because it taught me very early that if you are going to do machining, any machining at all with any seriousness you need to open your wallet and go buy some industrial grade equipment (Fanuc, Siemens, Heidenhain). Spending your money on anything less is a complete waste not only because it will produce such poor results, but also because of how much of your life you are going to waste with very little to show for it when you are done. People will say "But you will learn valuable lessons in the process", sure you will, basically what you will learn is the same as what you would learn if you decided to make a computer with vacuum tubes: There is a better way. Don't fool yourself into thinking that starting from such humble roots you will get fundamentals that will give you advantage over everyone else. You have a limited time on this earth and you should give yourself the tools you need to achieve your goal, which is to machine parts.

    Once I was done with the Unimat I saved up and bought a Kitamura CNC Mill off of Ebay and completely tore it apart to make sure it wasn't harming itself as it ran. Now this is a better way to start in the industry, get a machine with a control that will likely resemble something you will use later (Investment of your time in scaleable knowledge), and if you crash the machine you at least aren't crashing something you paid a large sum of money for. Since I have started I have built up hundreds of thousands of pounds of CNC's and if I were to be able to go back to when I was starting I would give this advice:

    If you want to get into machining, take some classes at school to get your hands on real machines. The cost is low relatively and the instruction will get you in track much faster. The classes are investment and give you mentors to help fast track your path to being really productive. Next if you are still thinking of getting a machine, not only go industrial grade but something with a good reputation for reliability and low hours. This will be expensive but long term it will not be.

    CNC Machining = The more you spend the less costly it will be. Get high quality machines, higher rigidity and better spindles give better tool life, faster controls/drives/servos will keep the tool cutting in the manner your CAM intended, also increasing life and improving the quality of your parts as well as lowering your cycle times.

    If you decide to start a business machining eventually the costs that really start to hurt are scrap parts, wasted man hours, broken tools. I have spent more in tooling for a single job than I spent on the whole machine that ran the job. If you buy cheap tooling, you may just not succeed in making the part at all.

    Get through spindle coolant, you'll thank yourself later. Drilling can be expensive, pretty much anything "deep" get's expensive.

    Basically CNC machining is expensive. It's like horses, if you don't have much money just find a friend that has one and use theirs.

    Nerv
    ^^^ Word.

    __________________________

    Cuz keeping a badly bred, badly conformed and badly trained miniature "Pony" in your dorm room is not going to get you to the Olympics...

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    Quote Originally Posted by crlalas View Post
    What are you saying???
    Better to have a dick that works than judgement that fails.

    Most especially as a dick with no judgement back of it will get you into far worse, and far more expensive, holes than even a containership load of Horror Fright "MMSO" on their worst days.

    DAMHIKT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Most especially as a dick with no judgement back of it will get you into far worse, and far more expensive, holes than even a containership load of Horror Fright "MMSO" on their worst days.
    Around here you need a Maserati to get into a really expensive hole

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    My experience has been that if you want to get into a really expensive hole you better bring a big wallet
    That, my young and LESS experienced friend, is the necessity for getting OUT of them!

    "Into" is all TOO cheap and easy..

    As with anything else: "bad judgement" has always been humankind's most expensive commodity, putting an end even to grandiose "movements", great nations, and enduring civilizations. Or so they had believed they were.

    "Trouble rather, the tiger in his lair..."



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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    That, my young and LESS experienced friend, is the necessity for getting OUT of them!
    Don't buy, rent

  12. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Don't buy, rent
    If it flies, floats or fu ks you should always rent it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Don't buy, rent
    I'm very much in the opposite camp. Women are wise. They ARE "the human race".

    Our job is to do the things they class as annoying distractions, entertain them, and insure all the kids don't look the same.

    If a Great Lady deems you worthy - makes you her "property" - life is long, lovely, and a delightful journey the whole time of it.

    Y'see... womenfolk tend to take far better care of their "tools" than menfolk do!

    Never yet had a machine-tool knit me a sweater, hand-make a 13-course meal, bandage a wound, find money where there was none, nor shag me breathless.

    All a machine-tool has ever done is make sharp chips, f**k with my budget, and insult my sensibilities - even when it was paying the bills.

    I'd rather commit to the Lady, full-time, life-long...(28 years and counting..) and rent the Iron, thanks !!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    I'm very much in the opposite camp. Women are wise. They ARE "the human race".

    Our job is to do the things they class as annoying distractions, entertain them, and insure all the kids don't look the same.

    If a Great Lady deems you worthy - makes you her "property" - life is long, lovely, and a delightful journey the whole time of it.

    Y'see... womenfolk tend to take far better care of their "tools" than menfolk do!

    Never yet had a machine-tool knit me a sweater, hand-make a 13-course meal, bandage a wound, find money where there was none, nor shag me breathless.
    Or said another way:
    Journey Departure & Good Morning Girl & Stay Awhile - YouTube

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    Ooh ! Sentimental Season opened early this year

    Luckily I brought along an antidote ...

    wheel in the sky does keep turnin'

  17. #214
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    Bill, you're talking to yourself again.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Bill, you're talking to yourself again.
    Listen up, Utah boy ... the next man makes a move, the nigger gets it !

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Bill, you're talking to yourself again.

    R
    Surely. Some days its is otherwise HARD to find any more convenient "intelligent life" on-planet.

    Why - some folks out Utah way will go all into a rage about a person in America choosing to buy a cheap Asian product and blame the maker for ruining the economy without ever noticing that the US never did make machines of that sort to be competed AGAINST.

    Worse, our major machine-tool builders had largely shut-down, ELSE partnered with Japanese or Europeans who had the same problem. A rapidly shrinking market. And BEFORE China was able to even grow enough rice, let alone make machinery for export.

    Check the dates!

    Didn't seem to bother Gene Haas, now, did it?

    He didn't choose to replicate a Lodge & Shipley lathe or a K&T mill's mass and shape.

    He did sumthin' about working metal that he could SELL into a changed and still-changing environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Surely. Some days its is otherwise HARD to find any more convenient "intelligent life" on-planet.
    The ol' lady won't listen to you anymore ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    The ol' lady won't listen to you anymore ?
    "any MORE?" You mean "yet".

    "Say, how long did it take YOUR wife to learn how to drive a motorcar?"

    "Uh.. lessee.. I think it will be 35 years and counting, come December.."

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    I usually leave your own brand of crazy alone, BUT I definitely do not blame the Maker. I blame the Buyer.

    Now that you have truly tested the boundaries of our esteemed leader, I'm convinced he doesn't care anymore.

    Shouldn't get so defensive, it makes you appear weak (let alone validate your pathology).

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by crlalas View Post
    already own all 3 fans, now what??
    other than joining more in this turdfest of a thread, have you actually done anything? Gone where I sent you? I was sympathetic for you at first. now im not so sure.

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