Mist solutions due to cutting fluids going up in the air - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    I do, but through a heat exchanger. The air quality in my shop is better than in my house when I am working.

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    Default Aersolized Oil

    I agree totally with totally McClure's comment. I have seen photos of autopsies from WWII of lungs that had aspirated oil. I worked as a Vetrinary Critcare/Emergency nurse (20 year) and have read thousands of chest radiographs. Aspiration of any kind has very distinctive prsentation.
    Same question I have about vaping. The "carrier medium" for whatever you are sucking in is more than likey some hydrocarbon, like veggie oil.

    Sorry got OT,
    I run a Noga Mini Mist 2-3 times a week (Nothing to do with Noga, I acctually like the product.) I do grab every fan I can lay my mitts on blowing the mist cloud away from me. The first time I used this mist I had a massive headache at the end of the day and could detect a taste i my mouth.
    I acomming up with DIY mist extcactor. Just some clothes dryer vent, blower with medium CFM rate and preferrable rated for use in flammble environments.
    Be safe use your head, if it doesn't seem right it probablly is not. Do your homework on the area of your concern, so you can be informed when you address the proper folks in your Co.

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    Mist collectors arent even that expensive...you can spend as little as $1800 for a MistAway unit. We use the 500cfm units and they work really well.

    Sooooo does OP want a free solution? I don't get what the issue with spending $30K+ on mist collectors is if they have 15 machining centers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doug8cat View Post
    I agree totally with totally McClure's comment. I have seen photos of autopsies from WWII of lungs that had aspirated oil. I worked as a Vetrinary Critcare/Emergency nurse (20 year) and have read thousands of chest radiographs. Aspiration of any kind has very distinctive prsentation.
    Same question I have about vaping. The "carrier medium" for whatever you are sucking in is more than likey some hydrocarbon, like veggie oil.

    Sorry got OT,
    I run a Noga Mini Mist 2-3 times a week (Nothing to do with Noga, I acctually like the product.) I do grab every fan I can lay my mitts on blowing the mist cloud away from me. The first time I used this mist I had a massive headache at the end of the day and could detect a taste i my mouth.
    I acomming up with DIY mist extcactor. Just some clothes dryer vent, blower with medium CFM rate and preferrable rated for use in flammble environments.
    Be safe use your head, if it doesn't seem right it probablly is not. Do your homework on the area of your concern, so you can be informed when you address the proper folks in your Co.
    OT the substrate for vaping is Propylene Glyocol and Vegetable Glycerin. Studies have shown time and again that vaping is 95%+ less harmful than smoking tobacco. KEY here is "less harmful" and not "harmless". Vaping is not harmless but it sure as hell is a lot better than smoking. I vape and I can still shred my mountain bike no problem. As a smoker that would be impossible. I know because I used to smoke. Yes it does damage but I am willing to accept the risk currently until I quit.

    I would much rather vape my stuff that I would inhale a bunch of coolant particulate into my lungs. I mean, that is not good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    Mist collectors arent even that expensive...you can spend as little as $1800 for a MistAway unit. We use the 500cfm units and they work really well.

    Sooooo does OP want a free solution? I don't get what the issue with spending $30K+ on mist collectors is if they have 15 machining centers.
    It's not about the $30K, I would gladly spend $30K for a permanent solution. Its also high-maintenance with filter replacements

    I would probably buy these 15 units of Mist collectors, but first, I'm considering to install 4 vents with channels above each machine to vac out mist, although I'm not sure its an effective solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    OT the substrate for vaping is Propylene Glyocol and Vegetable Glycerin. Studies have shown time and again that vaping is 95%+ less harmful than smoking tobacco. KEY here is "less harmful" and not "harmless". Vaping is not harmless but it sure as hell is a lot better than smoking. I vape and I can still shred my mountain bike no problem. As a smoker that would be impossible. I know because I used to smoke. Yes it does damage but I am willing to accept the risk currently until I quit.

    I would much rather vape my stuff that I would inhale a bunch of coolant particulate into my lungs. I mean, that is not good.
    Just dissolve some nicotine into your coolant.

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    The fella comes here looking to solve a problem, and y'all are sucker punching him for having the problem?
    How did anyone ever solve a problem before?

    I have recently been in a small shop that had mist collectors on every machine, and I was having issues breathing and my eyes were watering, but then - it wasn't my flavor of coolant, so ...
    So IM/HO - having collectors on every machine is NOT a fix'all. I don't have any collectors, and there are times when you can start to see a haze, in the winter.
    I've never had it where it was hard [for me] to breath. Likely ceiling height plays a large roll here.

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    Mist collectors arent even that expensive...you can spend as little as $1800 for a MistAway unit. We use the 500cfm units and they work really well.

    Sooooo does OP want a free solution? I don't get what the issue with spending $30K+ on mist collectors is if they have 15 machining centers
    .

    Yeah, the folks at the shop that I mentioned were bragging their collectors up one side and down the other too.
    I was glad to git out of there.



    Yeah, they make some bigger units to just hang from the peaks.


    IDK about y'all, but my nasal tract has been known to filter schidt out. Impurities collect and drain, and get hacked out....
    If that didn't work, I'd'a been dead before 14 yrs old with lungs full'o dirt and grain dust.

    ... and then we have 3 pack'o day smokers...


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Retal View Post
    It's not about the $30K, I would gladly spend $30K for a permanent solution. Its also high-maintenance with filter replacements

    I would probably buy these 15 units of Mist collectors, but first, I'm considering to install 4 vents with channels above each machine to vac out mist, although I'm not sure its an effective solution.
    This helps me understand where you're coming from a little better. Initially it appeared you were being Scottish with your money, but now I see you just want to actually solve the issue without a bunch of trial and error.

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    Dan,

    Would you say the electrostatic precipitator style collector is more effective than the centrifugal royal style?

    All of the centrifugal collectors I've seen had a ton of oil residue on the outlet duct, seeming like they arenletting a lot of oil through. Not sure if thats due to poor maintenance or a limit of the design.

    I'm in the same boat, wanting to address the oil mist but not wanting to waste and money on ineffective solutions.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    The fella comes here looking to solve a problem, and y'all are sucker punching him for having the problem?
    How did anyone ever solve a problem before?

    I have recently been in a small shop that had mist collectors on every machine, and I was having issues breathing and my eyes were watering, but then - it wasn't my flavor of coolant, so ...
    So IM/HO - having collectors on every machine is NOT a fix'all. I don't have any collectors, and there are times when you can start to see a haze, in the winter.
    I've never had it where it was hard [for me] to breath. Likely ceiling height plays a large roll here.




    Yeah, the folks at the shop that I mentioned were bragging their collectors up one side and down the other too.
    I was glad to git out of there.



    Yeah, they make some bigger units to just hang from the peaks.


    IDK about y'all, but my nasal tract has been known to filter schidt out. Impurities collect and drain, and get hacked out....
    If that didn't work, I'd'a been dead before 14 yrs old with lungs full'o dirt and grain dust.

    ... and then we have 3 pack'o day smokers...


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Not sure what your point is Ox...you're saying that it is okay to breathe in coolant mist because people have done that for decades? I suppose we should also remove safety interlocks because back in 1922 there were guys sharpening drills with no guarding? Your body can certainly "filter" a certain amount of particulate matter. Your body can also get cancer because said particulate matter causes cancer. Avoiding said cancer could be as simple as filtering coolant mist. I am not saying coolant mist causes cancer, but I am saying that it might.

    In terms of maintenance cost- the example I will use is the MistAway as that is the unit I have. The main filter needs replacing every 6 months or year depending on usage. The cost is like I dunno, $40-70 for a filter. You literally open the unit's door and slide the old one out, slide the new one in. Basically that is it.

    Not sure why that is an expensive or time consuming solution.

    For what it is worth I was told that the electrostatic units DO involve A LOT more maintenance than centrifugal or baffle style units. I would avoid those types of collectors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike RzMachine View Post
    Dan,

    Would you say the electrostatic precipitator style collector is more effective than the centrifugal royal style?

    All of the centrifugal collectors I've seen had a ton of oil residue on the outlet duct, seeming like they arenletting a lot of oil through. Not sure if thats due to poor maintenance or a limit of the design.

    I'm in the same boat, wanting to address the oil mist but not wanting to waste and money on ineffective solutions.

    Mike
    We have both centrifugal and filter based units. The filter type are far more efficient than the centrifugal type. And not as much maintenance as you might expect.

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    Cal-OSHA is pretty agressive about work place safety.

    They came into the last place I worked after some worker complaints.

    21 VMC's tightly packed together. OSHA was hot on some violations, like safety glasses. NOT ONE WORD about requiring any devices to deal with Mist from machining. Evidently not a problem according to Cal-OSHA.

    That's why I think people speculating about legal implications of not dealing with mist from machines is laughable. Unless they can site a specific court case that an employee has bought against a company.

    ---------------------------

    Having said that the air in my 4020 is noticeably mist free when I open the door when the Royal 1200 is running. Didn't do **** to lower coolant usage though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Cal-OSHA is pretty agressive about work place safety.

    They came into the last place I worked after some worker complaints.

    21 VMC's tightly packed together. OSHA was hot on some violations, like safety glasses. NOT ONE WORD about requiring any devices to deal with Mist from machining. Evidently not a problem according to Cal-OSHA.

    That's why I think people speculating about legal implications of not dealing with mist from machines is laughable. Unless they can site a specific court case that an employee has bought against a company.

    ---------------------------

    Having said that the air in my 4020 is noticeably mist free when I open the door when the Royal 1200 is running. Didn't do **** to lower coolant usage though.

    But by that token, where is the discharge?
    Back into the machine, or ambient?

    I guess how clean it is INSIDE the enclosure is relivent for when you open the door, but if the smog hog pulls it out into the rest of the shop, it would seem counter productive?

    -----------------------

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Cal-OSHA is pretty agressive about work place safety.
    I'll agree they are aggressive about enforcing their rules ... but whether that translates to actual safety is another question.

    21 VMC's tightly packed together. OSHA was hot on some violations, like safety glasses. NOT ONE WORD about requiring any devices to deal with Mist from machining. Evidently not a problem according to Cal-OSHA.
    Sounds about right, and it's because they are stupid drones. If they had a clue they'd get a job.

    I'm not at all opposed to worker safety but these people are worthless, so imo not a valid argument to hang your hat on.

    That's why I think people speculating about legal implications of not dealing with mist from machines is laughable. Unless they can site a specific court case that an employee has bought against a company.
    Until 20 years from now when someone wins one, then the retroactive floodgates open.

    Back to the subject, a lot of gear machines run the centifugal type, seldom the filters, but we also run oil, not water-base. If I were running Hardinges and the like, I'd go to oil over water. In the long run that water stuff is just too awful.

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    Very good information here.
    Gale - Product Login
    It is pretty amazing what you can find in those aerosols.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    ..., but if the smog hog pulls it out into the rest of the shop, it would seem counter productive?
    Ox
    Hopefully it makes the mist back into water/oil stream that pees back into the machine sump.
    Mine does. At first we just had a few buckets and one had to dump them back. That a pain.
    One will always loose water to evap. Loss here varies with humidity.
    If you grind carbide the officials get rather picky about mist collection and it's output. Was so much different in the 60s.
    Mist, heck seen those big yellow rain coats and hats used on fishing boats. Swing the tool rad and head down.
    Yet I do know of shops today doing it 1960's style and still getting away with it.

    Unless very simple it not just hang a smog hog. Air velocities, inlet locations, size, pipe bends and others have to be worked out.
    Sometimes the advice of a local HVAC guy may help. Others need more than that.

    At this number of machines I would be looking a a big central and piped system. It is going to use a lot of electricity.
    Your air compressor may eat money every day or month. This eats more.
    Outside discharge if allowed is easier but the make up air has to be heated or cooled so there is that added cost opposite of a inside recirculating.
    One or two machines is simple, a floor of machines running 24/7 is a for real headache.

    Foogy shops. A tiny place called Buick (one may have heard of them).
    So open public visit day. Showing sister the rough and semi crank area as proud and I sort of live there. Trades built me a bed so I nap along my line.
    She passes out ....WHAT.... They bring the cart and oxygen and haul her out on a stretcher.
    To some the mist not a problem and to others is is very big deal.
    What is fine for me maybe not for everybody. So what to do?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    A tiny place called Buick (one may have heard of them).
    Yeah, the Excelle and the van are pretty popular. Not as much as a few years ago but still hangin' in there.

    In China. You guys don't buy them.

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    I would never touch an electrostatic again, actually I dumped three of them in Lieu of 3-Royal FX575 and never had an issue, no cleaning, zippo. I was running spindles with coolant at 24K all day long, they performed the task flawlessly. Just my experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emma99 View Post
    I would never touch an electrostatic again, actually I dumped three of them in Lieu of 3-Royal FX575 and never had an issue, no cleaning, zippo. I was running spindles with coolant at 24K all day long, they performed the task flawlessly. Just my experience.

    What/where is your discharge?

    Back in the machine?

    Ambient shop air?

    Outdoors?


    -----------------------

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    Ox
    Last edited by Ox; 10-28-2021 at 06:36 PM. Reason: in = is

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    I agree with the electronic air filters. I was mistaken in my earlier post, I don't have a Mistaway, I have a Tri-Mist which has Honeywell cells just like the air filter in my house. The cells are all in storage having been replaced with 4" thick paper filters, those suckers use a lot of electricity. By the way, my new heat exchanger arrived today, 220 cfm and 80% efficiency, a big improvement over my home made version.


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