Mori mv-40b pallet change

Hi Everyone,

Trying to find information on a Mori Mv-40B pallet changer.
Manuals, experience or advice would be appreciated.

Move machine into reference position G30P4 for Pallet A removal and Pallet B entry, enter M63 in MDI mode but machine prompts y not 3rd reference position error.

Is the machine confused about which pallet is currently in the machine.
Which parameter shows current stored value of Pallet inside the machine and how can i determine if its A or B. If i move the machine to G30P3 for pallet B exit i receive home position ready lights but the outside Pallet would be in the way of removing the inside Pallet.
Any advice?

Thanks

TEXASMORS said:

Hi Everyone,

Trying to find information on a Mori Mv-40B pallet changer.
Manuals, experience or advice would be appreciated.

Move machine into reference position G30P4 for Pallet A removal and Pallet B entry, enter M63 in MDI mode but machine prompts y not 3rd reference position error.

Is the machine confused about which pallet is currently in the machine.
Which parameter shows current stored value of Pallet inside the machine and how can i determine if its A or B. If i move the machine to G30P3 for pallet B exit i receive home position ready lights but the outside Pallet would be in the way of removing the inside Pallet.
Any advice?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Okay, so I have no experience with your machine, so sorry in advance if it seems like I'm muddying the waters...


1st, what year machine? What control and version does it have?

2nd, if there is a pallet change program(s), you might post them here so someone can gleam some information from it.

3rd, it seems you don't have the manuals. Have you tried contacting Mori about it? I have no experience with them, or their support, but I am sure they support it (not sure if it is free). Having spoken several times with Kitamura, I find they were super helpful and sent us manuals and given us similar support over the phone, for free. Maybe Mori would be the same?

Thanks for the reply Dandrummerman,

Its a 1992 Mori Seiki Mv-40B with Fanuc MF-M4 control with the optional Pallet changer APC-6.
I have all the machine manuals, ladder diagrams, programming manuals. The problem is that the pallet changer is an addition and don't have the manual for it or know if one even exists.
I have no stored programs for pallet changing, only M-codes given in the machine manual to operate in MDI.

Calling Mori is my last resort after hearing about the not so good customer service.
Just trying to get gather some information to at least pinpoint the issue.
My thoughts are maybe the proximity switch for the G30P4 position or the PC parameter bit value needs to be changed to allow the machine ready position before changing Pallat A.

Call Mori parts and ask them if there is a separate manual for pallet equipped machines. Also, look at the ladder diagrams and wiring schematics for pallet related things- that will tell you which I/0 and possibly keep relay that identifies the pallet. Pretty sure your control is a Fanuc 10/11 series from the age.

Dan from Oakland said:

Pretty sure your control is a Fanuc 10/11 series from the age.

Click to expand...

The MF-M4 is based on a 0M.

TEXASMORS said:

Move machine into reference position G30P4 for Pallet A removal and Pallet B entry, enter M63 in MDI mode but machine prompts y not 3rd reference position error.

Click to expand...

This is a bit confusing...

When you command G30P4 you are telling the machine to move to the 4th reference position. The error message appears to be saying that the machine expects to be at the 3rd reference position for the M63 command. What happens when you command G30P3 then M63?

Hey Texas,

I have a mid 90s Mori SV-50 with the APC-6 pallet system running on a Fanuc 18. Attached are some 9000 programs that came with the machine. Pretty much ignore all of them except 9001/9002/9302/9303. Unless something in the others rings a bell in what you know about your machine.) Not saying yours will be exactly the same but here are some things to go on. In MDI when the machine is sitting about anywhere, I can call either M160 to Load B or M162 to load A. You can see that these are tied to 9000 programs that have to be on the control. Your similar calls may be hidden in the ladder and run on the PMC side. Not sure. My control also has a manual APC operation screen that is accessed through the "Custom" button. Again... you may not have that. To unload A/load B the saddle has to be at the 3rd reference position called by G30P3X0Y0. Unload B is a modification of that looking like G30P3X0/next line/G91G28Y0. You can see these calls in the supplied programs. Note that the B pallet is towards the front of the machine and A towards the rear on my machine. Actual pallet change calls are M60/M61/M62/M63. I have never used these in the MDI mode. But they all appear in the pallet programs. In reviewing the programs in the text files it looks like M61 is Unload B. M62 is Load A. M63 is Unload A, M60 is Load B.

I also think that after an M30 when the machine does a work number search, it starts running 9302 or 9303 before resuming machining of whatever program is called by the work number search. That's the only time I remember seeing them running.

I may be able to come up with more, but that's it for now. Not at the shop so kind of going off memory.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Couldn't see how to attach, so here they are. Even if you don't have these M codes assigned to these programs, there may be useful tidbits. At least I hope so.

:9001(M162 LOAD A)
G0G91G28Z0
G30P3X0
G91G28Y0
M61
G91G30P3X0Y0
M62
M02

:9002(M160 LOAD B)
G0G91G28Z0
G30P3X0Y0
M63
G91G28Y0
M60
M2

:9302(UNLOAD B/LOAD A)
G28G91Z0
G91G30P3X0
G28Y0
M61
G30P3Y0
M62
M64

:9303(UNLOAD A/LOAD B)
G28G91Z0
G91G30P3X0Y0
M63
G28Y0
M60
M64

Dave,

Thank you for all the information.
The one thing that really caught my eye was your statement that Pallet A is towards the back of the Machine and Pallet B towards front of the machine. Pallet A is inside my machine but pallet B is towards the back so if i get the machine ready with G30 P3 x0. y0. the outside Pallet will be in the way to unload. I believe my control has the wrong Pallet stored in the parameters. I dont have a customs button. Its the Fanuc 16M control.
I will try the G30P3X0 and G28Y0 and pretend to have pallet B inside the machine and see what it does. I will have to take a long good look at the Ladder diagram and try to find the parameter which shows the pallet inside the machine. Perhaps i can change the bit and make sure the machine has the correct Pallet stored.

Cheers

TEXASMORS said:

Dave,

Thank you for all the information.
The one thing that really caught my eye was your statement that Pallet A is towards the back of the Machine and Pallet B towards front of the machine. Pallet A is inside my machine but pallet B is towards the back so if i get the machine ready with G30 P3 x0. y0. the outside Pallet will be in the way to unload. I believe my control has the wrong Pallet stored in the parameters. I dont have a customs button. Its the Fanuc 16M control.
I will try the G30P3X0 and G28Y0 and pretend to have pallet B inside the machine and see what it does. I will have to take a long good look at the Ladder diagram and try to find the parameter which shows the pallet inside the machine. Perhaps i can change the bit and make sure the machine has the correct Pallet stored.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Hello TEXASMORS,
With regards to parameters relating to pallet numbers and status, you won't necessarily find that information in the Ladder itself, but in the PMC parameters under Counters. If you have a hard copy of the PMC program, you should find that information there and there should be included a list of the Inputs to the PMC. Its normal to have a proximity switch to confirm that the pallet is in the correct position to make a Pallet Change. If you can find the Input Address (an X address), you will be able to view the status of the Input via the Diagnostic Parameters on the NC Side.

Regards,

Bill

Hi Texas,

Glad you got some useful bites out of the information. Curious if you have pallet designation plates anywhere in the pallet station telling you with certainty which pallet goes where. If not. and you think yours may be reversed, there's no law against using a hoist to move the table currently in the pallet station from one landing/storage spot to the other. Mine will lift vertically without problem as there is nothing restricting it in a straight upward move. Double check yours before attempting what I'm describing. BTW the "Custom" section of the control is mostly for manual actuation of tool change, pallet change, probes and miscellaneous operations like that. Not really for the day to day operation of the pallet system through MDI or automatic control. Good luck.

Dave

Update,

so just for additional reference i do have the Fanuc OMC control and the outside pallet was in fact positioned wrong. Once i lifted the pallet out i was able to get the machine ready to unload Pallet A. I did get an Alarn for Arm not in retract position and it turned out to be a faulty proximity switch. I replaced the switch and was able to push the pallet out but it timed out with the arm in almost full forward position.
Its the first time the pallet had been out of the machine in at least 15 years and it took a lot of cleaning and degreasing.
So, now i had the issue that it wont let me change a Pallet because i dont have one inside the machine. I was able to unplug the hydraulic line and push the arm back to full retract position and manually load Pallet A back into the machine and clamp it down via diagnostic D556.6
However, if i try to unload A now, i get a Pallet not clamp error.

I checked the X input signals 3000 and 3001 and the problem is that the Arm still shows to be in full forward position even though the proximity switch for full retract is lit up. I also get 3001.7 which in the Ladder shown A Pallet clamp.

I went through the Ladder input and output values several times but cant figure out how to relate the Y input signals to a D number to change the X values that are showing up wrong.
The Y input value for Shifter Arm forward and Backward are Y1021.4 and Y1021.5 but there is no D related to it in the Ladder.

I did read online about the APC manual mode by using Custom 98 input. I dont have the custom button, only have AUX with Tool pot assignment and ATC manual mode. I hit 98 input and it prompted if i wanted to initialize APC manual and i hit yes, but then it still doesnt give me any options or a menu.

Am i missing something in the my Ladder diagram for the y1020/y1021 diagnostics or are they perhaps macro related?
Why does it show apc manual initialized but wont give me any options.
I feel like im close to getting it work, just need to know how i can change the Y inputs for the Arm and the clamp status and which pallet is inside the machine.

Hope someone can enlighten me with some parameter/diagnostic knowledge.

Best Regards, and also thank you for all the great replies so far.

Hey Texas,

Nice to hear you're plugging away and slowly getting somewhere. Do you have all the factory manuals? I know they'd be super helpful. I wish I wasn't half way across the country and could see what you've got going on in the flesh.

The fact that you have an AUX with ATC and Tool screens makes it seem odd that you also don't have an APC screen. That 98 call you made sounded promising. When you answered yes, did you then try the right and left arrow soft keys to see if there were another screen hiding on the next or previous page? Did you hit the page up page down keys or continue pressing the AUX key? Without the manuals you may have trouble knowing what to push to make things happen. Also there could be a keep relay or parameter that controls the viewing or not viewing of the APC screen. Note too, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but looking in your diagnostics for whether something is on or not, I'm not positive that you're always looking for a high bit. Meaning it may start high and go low when what it is you want to happen has happened. Follow me?

On my machine the pallet not clamp signal is derived from a digital pneumatic pressure differential switch. It senses whether you have any back pressure on the seating surfaces between your table and the pads on your saddle. Do you have those? Pads on the bottom of the table matching up to pads on the machine saddle? They have tiny holes in them? If your table is not sitting right due to chips and such, the system won't create pressure and the sensor will sit there waiting. After a few seconds and no luck it will retry three times then error out and give the pallet not clamped message. I had a little trouble with mine for a time until I found that the detection system pressure was set a tad too low. The regulator for the system was hidden under a cover in the left side box that rides with the saddle. Your machine layout me be different of course.

With me having an 18 control I doubt my manuals would do you any good at all. Hopefully there is some piece of info above that helps you or at least stirs your mind a little. Wish I had more concrete things to offer. Tough not being there.

Dave