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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Yes, I have a Haas VF-2 w/ high speed machining option. What tool* and stepover would you use for HSM?
    I would go full depth of cut (minus finish stock) and go with something around 15-20% stepover at the same SFM (to start), but get your feed up to .007-.01ipt.

    *edit using your same 1/2" endmill, make sure to keep the LOC the shortest you need within reason

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    XXXX First off let me give a warning, I am a little biased. I sell these tools. XXXX

    Anyway we developed a new line of variable flute endmills with chipbreakers Most are 5 flute. Nothing "new", just new to us. We decided to go with the AlCrn coating from a certain vendor. Wow what amazing results. I tried on on our multitasking machine for milling the drive slots on CAT40 or BT40 holders. After a full week of production I could literally put the tool back in the package and resell it. Unreal. Worked out so well I am switching all of our machines to this tool but with even shorter flute length and a shorter blank length just to save a few extra bucks, and 4 flute instead of 5 since we are running this on live tooling so it isn't very rigid. 1/2 X 2-1/2 long instead of 3". Now it has been 4 weeks and still going strong. Just a little discoloration and corners have a little wear. 1/2 Variable 5 Flute End Mill with Chip Breaker .625 LOC .008 Radius MariTool

    Variable Flute End Mills With Chip Breaker - Made in USA - MariTool
    Can you full slot with the 5-flute like SGS's Z-Carb HPR ?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I really really don't understand why you comment on these things.
    Go back to the 1st post. He is using a 1/2" endmill. I seriously doubt it is more than 1-1 1/4" LOC, or I at least hope he would have mentioned that (4x 5x diam etc) in asking about tool life.
    Exactly! I am running .75" DOC NOT 2-3"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Can you full slot with the 5-flute like SGS's Z-Carb HPR ?
    Yes. No problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    XXXX First off let me give a warning, I am a little biased. I sell these tools. XXXX

    Anyway we developed a new line of variable flute endmills with chipbreakers Most are 5 flute. Nothing "new", just new to us. We decided to go with the AlCrn coating from a certain vendor. Wow what amazing results. I tried on on our multitasking machine for milling the drive slots on CAT40 or BT40 holders. After a full week of production I could literally put the tool back in the package and resell it. Unreal. Worked out so well I am switching all of our machines to this tool but with even shorter flute length and a shorter blank length just to save a few extra bucks, and 4 flute instead of 5 since we are running this on live tooling so it isn't very rigid. 1/2 X 2-1/2 long instead of 3". Now it has been 4 weeks and still going strong. Just a little discoloration and corners have a little wear. 1/2 Variable 5 Flute End Mill with Chip Breaker .625 LOC .008 Radius MariTool

    Variable Flute End Mills With Chip Breaker - Made in USA - MariTool
    Added to cart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Yes. No problem.
    Added to cart! SGS is $105.00 instead of $54.50...

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    To the OP,

    What holder are you using for the tool? I cut Ti and 17-4 H900 on a VF-3SS and my cutter life increased dramatically when I switched to shrink fit holders. Frank sells a workable induction machine for pretty darned cheap, so the barrier to entry is much lower than it used to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    To the OP,

    What holder are you using for the tool? I cut Ti and 17-4 H900 on a VF-3SS and my cutter life increased dramatically when I switched to shrink fit holders. Frank sells a workable induction machine for pretty darned cheap, so the barrier to entry is much lower than it used to be.
    I am using a stubby ER32 collet chuck with an exact size collet. However, what's the price on a heatshrink machine? Is it worth it for 1/2" endmills?

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    Although I have no problem selling a heat shrink machine and shrink holders I am not sure you are going to get the same tool life improvement like mhajicek.

    So many variables. Sometimes the improvment of runout is greatly offset by the addition of gage length. A nice stubby ER32 collet chuck is hard to beat. Going to a shrink holder is going to add 1-1/2 inches to your gage line at least. Sometimes that doesn't matter, other times it does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I am using a stubby ER32 collet chuck with an exact size collet. However, what's the price on a heatshrink machine? Is it worth it for 1/2" endmills?
    I can't answer that, never used a heatshrink holder. I hear good things about em but they are not for us.

    But the reason I am replying is, I might suggest you try a side lock endmill holder. In my experience, they are more "rigid" (I don't know how to explain what I mean) and also damper out some squeals a bit better than collets.

    Some may disagree with this. But I'd only use a collet for light finish cuts or when it isn't possible to use an endmill holder.

    If you want to try an endmill holder, be sure to use a quality endmill holder. We have mostly Lyndex for our 40 tapers. We have a couple 30 taper endmill holders from maritool, they are also top notch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Although I have no problem selling a heat shrink machine and shrink holders I am not sure you are going to get the same tool life improvement like mhajicek.

    So many variables. Sometimes the improvment of runout is greatly offset by the addition of gage length. A nice stubby ER32 collet chuck is hard to beat. Going to a shrink holder is going to add 1-1/2 inches to your gage line at least. Sometimes that doesn't matter, other times it does.
    Exactly, with a stubby ER32 gage length is about .75" and as long as I tighten it with a 2 foot long wrench (I am 230#) it won't come loose.
    BTW Frank, I have 2 of your 1/2" 5-fluters coming. Will be trying them next week.

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    Chipsplitter a little suspect.

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    I can't understand why Iscar doesn't make their 808 grade available for solid carbide. I have run their inserts milling thru scaly A-36 at 1000 SFM with an easy hour of tool life. Why can't they put that same coating on an endmill?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    So many variables. Sometimes the improvment of runout is greatly offset by the addition of gage length. A nice stubby ER32 collet chuck is hard to beat.
    .. as to initial cost, mayhap. 'coz I'd have to go buy cheap ones?



    Your own web-catalog does not show ER32 on BT-40 as a stocked item.

    I'll submit that within your very own product line, your SK series will surely beat ER:

    BT40 SK Collet Chuck Tool Holders - Made in USA - MariTool

    ... and so will your TG-100's:

    BT40 TG Collet Chuck Tool Holders - MariTool

    Toolholder prices are near-as-dammit identical.

    The only bullet to bite is the need for two or more times the number of collets to cover a range not known in advance.

    That's a feature, not a bug, as lesser collapse is part of why they grip tighter and with better concentricity. Holder, collet, AND tool can all be expected to last longer as a byproduct of both.

    Where one DOES know in advance what sizes are to be most-often used? The typical "production", not job-shop environment?

    Cost of the collets (always "consumables", whether faster or slower..) is no longer the dominant factor. Longer tool life, less time wasted, lower risk of scrap take-over and dominate.

    Buy the best one can find for production tasking. Even (especially!) we bean-counters know it nearly always ends up costing less, all-up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I can't understand why Iscar doesn't make their 808 grade available for solid carbide. I have run their inserts milling thru scaly A-36 at 1000 SFM with an easy hour of tool life. Why can't they put that same coating on an endmill?
    You might want to check out the IC608. It is the same 08 substrate as IC808 but with the kitchen sink thrown into the coating...AlTiCrSiN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Although I have no problem selling a heat shrink machine and shrink holders I am not sure you are going to get the same tool life improvement like mhajicek.

    So many variables. Sometimes the improvment of runout is greatly offset by the addition of gage length. A nice stubby ER32 collet chuck is hard to beat. Going to a shrink holder is going to add 1-1/2 inches to your gage line at least. Sometimes that doesn't matter, other times it does.
    This is true; I'm using 4" gauge length holders anyway to reach into the trunnion, so gong to shrink fit didn't increase my holder length.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    I've been using 1/2" Helical and Fullerton for my roughing in A-36. 650 SFM .004 IPT 75% stepover .75" ap running dry with tool life of 25-30 min. Is this reasonable or should I be getting more life? Also should I try running wet? Please advise.
    I'd be running less stepover and then raise the feed rate.
    I'd also be wet and on my experiments, we went over to 10% coolant strength on everything. This improved tool life, allowed roughing tools on their last legs to "gradually fail" (so we'd get to the end of the toolpath and then change it out at the tool change. Also we had high flow coolant pumps, it was like a fire hose at the table because of the 6 nozzles through the spindle nose + 2 nozzles for the flexi pipes - but the rate was so great that it would blow all chips from the table. So tools never recut chips which is a HUGE thing.
    Also farrr better for tapping (the 10%).
    One thing to try is a short stubby sidelock tool holder. Frank also sells these and we went over to using them for all roughing.
    Yes, the runout could be a little more than shrink or a collet chuck, but with the shorter gauge length and therefore more rigidity, we had better tool life.
    Last edited by barbter; 07-07-2019 at 05:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I'd be running less stepover and then raise the feed rate.
    I'd also be wet and on my experiments, we went over to 10% coolant strength on everything. This improved tool life, allowed roughing tools on their last legs to "gradually fail" (so we'd get to the end of the toolpath and then change it out at the tool change. Also we had high flow coolant pumps, it was like a fire hose at the table because of the 6 nozzles through the spindle nose + 2 nozzles for the flexi pipes - but the rate was so great that it would blow all chips from the table. So tools never recut chips which is a HUGE thing.
    Also farrr better for tapping (the 10%).
    I am running 10% conc. coolant and I have both TSC and high pressure flood coolant. I have another big endmill job coming up in the next 2 weeks to try Frank's new 5 flute EM w/ AlCRnX coating. I am also going to try running wet to see if it makes a difference on tool life.

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    1/2 Variable 5 Flute End Mill with Chip Breaker .625 LOC .030 Radius MariTool

    still using the same tool for slotting drive keys in H-13 steel. Tool is running 400% longer than the 1/2 carbide rougher we used to use and still going strong. Any feedback from you guys? Im worried these are lasting too damn long...

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    I think the corner radius is a HUGE factor... I remember running some MA Ford cutters in hard steel (A2 56-58ish) that ran forever! They were *some* coating with a .062r I think...


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