my foray into high end, high speed 5 axis machining.

empower · Aug 16, 2019

Hey guys, as some might be aware (cameraman) we bought a used Matsuura LX-160 to make compressor wheels in house (we're a turbo builder). it took us awhile to get it up and running, as well as for me to get somewhat familiarized with programming it. still a newb but little by little i'm getting there.
last night i finally got the fixture made and prepped a piece of stock just to do a trial run, work out the bugs and kinks in the machine and programming before we run a real part. this machine is absolutely amazing! started out real slow but the way it moves is just so smooth and flowing.

super happy to have it up and running. i'm sure now is gonna be the most difficult part, making it run efficiently...

Rick Finsta · Aug 16, 2019

Sweet! We love our Matsuura but I'm super jealous of all that 5-axis work. We do mostly (99%) 3+2. It still saves a ton of money in setup time and costs, but sometimes I throw some swarf cut chamfers into a program just to watch the ol' girl dance a bit!

What are you using for programming? We are using Fusion 360 for all the positional stuff (crazy easy to program, much faster than Mastercam) and then Powermill for the complex parts. I'm still trying to get some circle segment cutters in the door to try them out on some of these simple parts just to save cycle time.

empower · Aug 16, 2019

Rick Finsta said:
Sweet! We love our Matsuura but I'm super jealous of all that 5-axis work. We do mostly (99%) 3+2. It still saves a ton of money in setup time and costs, but sometimes I throw some swarf cut chamfers into a program just to watch the ol' girl dance a bit!

What are you using for programming? We are using Fusion 360 for all the positional stuff (crazy easy to program, much faster than Mastercam) and then Powermill for the complex parts. I'm still trying to get some circle segment cutters in the door to try them out on some of these simple parts just to save cycle time.

nice! ya matsuura are probably my fav MTB right now.

i use fusion for 3+2 because like you said its STUPID easy. for sim 5x work its hypermill. gonna start playing with some circle segment cutters soon.

check out Fraisa for those and other tools, they are THE SHIT!

Mike1974 · Aug 16, 2019

Rick Finsta said:
Sweet! We love our Matsuura but I'm super jealous of all that 5-axis work. We do mostly (99%) 3+2. It still saves a ton of money in setup time and costs, but sometimes I throw some swarf cut chamfers into a program just to watch the ol' girl dance a bit!

What are you using for programming? We are using Fusion 360 for all the positional stuff (crazy easy to program, much faster than Mastercam) and then Powermill for the complex parts. I'm still trying to get some circle segment cutters in the door to try them out on some of these simple parts just to save cycle time.

I'm curious why you think fusion is much faster? I ask because I have used other software to program 3 axis, but only Mastercam for 5 axis (3+2, some simul 4 axis), so I have no reference... Do you know (at least with a Haas post we had from postability) you can right click (u do need to customize your right click for this), select plane by solid face and have at it? Just set planes to top>viewxx>viewxx in your toolpath and the post will take care of orientation, no need to "line up" x and y axis to anything, just so Z is up.

empower · Aug 16, 2019

Mike1974 said:
I'm curious why you think fusion is much faster? I ask because I have used other software to program 3 axis, but only Mastercam for 5 axis (3+2, some simul 4 axis), so I have no reference... Do you know (at least with a Haas post we had from postability) you can right click (u do need to customize your right click for this), select plane by solid face and have at it? Just set planes to top>viewxx>viewxx in your toolpath and the post will take care of orientation, no need to "line up" x and y axis to anything, just so Z is up.

its hard to describe... fusion interface is just way more user friendly and intuitive. mastercam is super clunky, its just a much better/easier/faster experience working with fusion.

there is way too much shit in mastercam that you HAVE to make sure is right. keeping track of construction/tool planes is a fucking cunt. having to remember to reset them after i go to front/right view is a chore. with fusion i dont need to worry about that crap. i get that mastercam has way more control, thats great! but in many instances that greater control becomes a huge nuisance. my distaste for mastercam is huge right now. they can go fuck themselves right along with DMG/MORI

Mike1974 · Aug 16, 2019

empwoer said:
there is way too much shit in mastercam that you HAVE to make sure is right. keeping track of construction/tool planes is a fucking cunt. having to remember to reset them after i go to front/right view is a chore. with fusion i dont need to worry about that crap. i get that mastercam has way more control, thats great! but in many instances that greater control becomes a huge nuisance. my distaste for mastercam is huge right now. they can go fuck themselves right along with DMG/MORI

LoL
acutally there is/was a setting to control that. I am using an oolldd version - mcx6 and it supports that, it is called something like "reset view to top..blah blah" (don't remember not at work)

ok then... I don't want to start another this cam is better than that cam... was just curious as I thought maybe I could offer some insight into 5 axis* (3+2) programming.

*I'll freely admit full 5 axis motion in MCX did suck (not sure of any improvements with current versions). If you really truly need 5 axis simul I would look at something else IMO...

empower · Aug 16, 2019

Mike1974 said:
LoL
acutally there is/was a setting to control that. I am using an oolldd version - mcx6 and it supports that, it is called something like "reset view to top..blah blah" (don't remember not at work)

ok then... I don't want to start another this cam is better than that cam... was just curious as I thought maybe I could offer some insight into 5 axis* (3+2) programming.

*I'll freely admit full 5 axis motion in MCX did suck (not sure of any improvements with current versions). If you really truly need 5 axis simul I would look at something else IMO...

well to be fair, it has pretty damn good control of simultaneous 5 axis toolpaths, they just suck dick to figure out/use.
fusion is super easy to use, but lacks simultaneous toolpaths/control.

i imagine you've been using MC for years? makes sense that its something you're used to and it comes easy for you.
for a new user, mastercam is just horrible, especially when you compare it to something like fusion or solidcam etc.

Mike1974 · Aug 16, 2019

empwoer said:
well to be fair, it has pretty damn good control of simultaneous 5 axis toolpaths, they just suck dick to figure out/use.
fusion is super easy to use, but lacks simultaneous toolpaths/control.

i imagine you've been using MC for years? makes sense that its something you're used to and it comes easy for you.
for a new user, mastercam is just horrible, especially when you compare it to something like fusion or solidcam etc.

Ya, I have used mcx since 2005 I think. I have a class cert from 2006, but I started using it before I went to class...

If you think mcx is terrible for a new user, try NX!! (sorry but had to get a jab in here hahaha

)

empower · Aug 16, 2019

Mike1974 said:
Ya, I have used mcx since 2005 I think. I have a class cert from 2006, but I started using it before I went to class...

If you think mcx is terrible for a new user, try NX!! (sorry but had to get a jab in here hahaha )

oh i have... i had a few people try to talk me into going that route, i promptly told them i'd rather gouge my eyes out.

g-coder05 · Aug 16, 2019

Something about getting a new 5X and making a compressor just goes together. In the display cabinet its always the part that gets picked up first.

empower · Aug 16, 2019

g-coder05 said:
Something about getting a new 5X and making a compressor just goes together. In the display cabinet its always the part that gets picked up first.
View attachment 263269

hell yeah! what did you program it with?

Vancbiker · Aug 16, 2019

Mike1974 said:
......If you think mcx is terrible for a new user, try NX!! (sorry but had to get a jab in here hahaha )

IDK, I found NX to make more sense to me than MCX. Then I watch my son mess around with some flavor of HSM he uses and see some of the weird code it makes and I keep thinking how much nicer NX is. Everyone talks about how hard NX is and all I can do is think about how much better things have gotten since I first started using SmartCam back in the 80s.

g-coder05 · Aug 16, 2019

empwoer said:
hell yeah! what did you program it with?

Delcam Powermill.

mike_w · Aug 16, 2019

Not meaning to go down the 'cam software A vs cam software B' but thought this might be of interest to OP. This is a part similar to what you programmed, done in Mastercam in 5 minutes. The video was made to show how easy the software can be, that if you don't want to take control of every aspect of the toolpath you don't have to.
Yes, I made this video. No, the part is not done to the point where I would machine it. The video was meant to be a fun look at programming a complex part quickly.

gkoenig · Aug 16, 2019

mike_w said:
Yes, I made this video. No, the part is not done to the point where I would machine it. The video was meant to be a fun look at programming a complex part quickly.

How am I supposed to trust a CAM instructor who's intro shows a drill doing full slotting at 3x diameter deep, and the resulting engraving feature has square inside corners on all the letters?

empower · Aug 16, 2019

mike_w said:
Not meaning to go down the 'cam software A vs cam software B' but thought this might be of interest to OP. This is a part similar to what you programmed, done in Mastercam in 5 minutes. The video was made to show how easy the software can be, that if you don't want to take control of every aspect of the toolpath you don't have to.
Yes, I made this video. No, the part is not done to the point where I would machine it. The video was meant to be a fun look at programming a complex part quickly.

actually watched this video while messing around with mastercam. while it is pretty easy to get 'A' toolpath, like you said, its far from being good enough to run. mastercam is absolutely terrible with all its little switches and toggles that do mysterious things. without knowing what each one does, you'll get shit like this

the more i used mastercam, the more i fucking hated it.

mike_w · Aug 16, 2019

gkoenig said:
How am I supposed to trust a CAM instructor who's intro shows a drill doing full slotting at 3x diameter deep, and the resulting engraving feature has square inside corners on all the letters?

lol

We'll be doing some filming tomorrow, I'll see if we can fit in a repeat of that graphic on the machine with real cutters, cutting real shapes

empower · Aug 16, 2019

gkoenig said:
how am i supposed to trust a cam instructor who's intro shows a drill doing full slotting at 3x diameter deep, and the resulting engraving feature has square inside corners on all the letters?

bwhahahahaha

gkoenig · Aug 16, 2019

mike_w said:
lol

We'll be doing some filming tomorrow, I'll see if we can fit in a repeat of that graphic on the machine with real cutters, cutting real shapes

Fair!

To note though - any CAM package with blade/blisk is as easy to program as that... hence why they have canned ops for this exact kind of geometry. You can pull the same demo with NX but I don't do blades, so I didn't spend whatever absurd money Siemens wanted for that package.

barratt · Aug 17, 2019

empwoer said:
keeping track of construction/tool planes is a fucking cunt.

Nice use of compound expletives there empower. You from the UK? ;-)

my foray into high end, high speed 5 axis machining.

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