Need better coolant, foaming issue
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    Default Coolant foaming issue

    So, although the 690XT I got is running good in the mill. It's turning this lathe into a bathtub so quickly I can't make 1 part, after wasting all day to finally make it run ok(minus the parts catcher not catching them yet...)
    I'm not sure if there's an additive to make it stop, or just switch to a different coolant? this thing has 145psi, not a ton but more than enough to make a mess... what are you guys using that doesn't give foam issues but doesn't have other issues like hard on skin, bad smell, etc?
    Starting to really wonder why I got myself into this...

    Edit, my water is on a softener/well(not city water), so it's possible that it is too soft and causing more foaming.
    any additives to "harden it" ?

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    Go careful blaming the coolant, foaming is oftern in part down to the water your adding too and a hence a joint effort between the 2.

    Whilst Reverse osmosis - low impurity water is great for top up, to reduce a build up of minerals especially in hard water areas, more than a few threads have come up over the years with people having foaming issues from using water thats too pure from the start or water with a high sodium content from a water softener.

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    That probably is my problem, its coming from the softener.
    I thought I'd be ok cause it didn't foam in the mill, compared to the cimcool I used to use before that would foam a fair bit on a new batch for the first few days.

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    Well, I took a bucket straight from the pressure tank bypassing the softener, which I think was tested at 7 or 8 grains of hardness. Added coolant and whipped it up with my regular mixer, and its looking even worse and not dissipating itself as fast.

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    Im on extra hard well water here SND.
    I truck in barrels of steam distilled @ $40 a pop delivered to the middle of nowhere.

    Ive had excellent coolant life, and no foaming going this route with syntillo 9954.
    Nice clear coolant, doesnt go stanky, and doesnt leave goo on everything.

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    I heard of the Syntillo 9954 but its full synthetic and apparently its not good at all for rust prevention, there was a few old threads on here about it, some mentioned rusts in between everywhere it sneaks into and that really, really worries me.
    I had some of that issue with the cimcool qualstar I ran before. No issue at all in that regard with the 690XT, was loving it until this foam in that new machine. I'll wait to hear if they got something I can add to it. This machine uses grease, so not much oil mixing in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    So, although the 690XT I got is running good in the mill. It's turning this lathe into a bathtub so quickly I can't make 1 part, after wasting all day to finally make it run ok(minus the parts catcher not catching them yet...)
    I'm not sure if there's an additive to make it stop, or just switch to a different coolant? this thing has 145psi, not a ton but more than enough to make a mess... what are you guys using that doesn't give foam issues but doesn't have other issues like hard on skin, bad smell, etc?
    Starting to really wonder why I got myself into this...

    Edit, my water is on a softener/well(not city water), so it's possible that it is too soft and causing more foaming.
    any additives to "harden it" ?
    How new is your coolant? Fresh coolant has a tendency to want to foam until the impurities buildup a little bit.

    Lathes are especially problematic due to the part motion and that there are not many small chips coming off to add as a contaminate.

    There are defoamers but caution needs to be used with these as the they tend to increase air entrainment and cause a whole host of their own problems.

    One thing to try before switching coolants if you are happy with what you have except for the foaming is to put used coolant from the mill into the lathe. Doen't need to be 100% but even 20% might be enough to change the foaming issue to acceptable.

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    Its a new batch, put it in there maybe 3 weeks ago but it mostly just sat since while I was waiting for the rest of the tooling to arrive.
    It was foaming a bit during install but weren't running long enough to notice just how bad it would build up and I thought it would settle itself. It won't dirty fast as I don't do steel, all SS, and well a batch of plastic I gotta get onto asap.
    I can pump a couple pails out of each machine and switch them to see if that helps, mill uses way oil and that batch of 690xt is near 2yrs old now but still good.
    well, best get back at it..

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    We use mains water and it is pretty soft here.

    We used to have foaming problems in the lathes with our old coolant. We bought some antifoam from castrol that worked great, really just a big drum of super hard water, half a cupful in the tank and no more foaming.

    Now we use Hysol XF and haven't had any more foaming.

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    It's a new machine................everything has a slight coating of oil, way covers, turret, tools, etc. It's all gettin mixed into the coolant all at once..........you may have to deal with it until it "wears" in...........BTDT

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    I just picked up an interesting product from Metalloid. It’s a botanical based coolant called Advance 6030C. Looks like the coolant industry finally figured out the issues related to bio-based coolants. No foam, no dermatitis, no stink, and no sticky residue. Plus it has a really nice rust package. Just a pleasant, trouble free product. It’s gone over huge with a lot of my local customers. A 5 gallon pail runs about $120

    ADDVANCE 6�3�C - Metalloid Corporation

    We’re replacing Hangsterfers and Trim e206 in 5 local shops next week 👍

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    Any reason for going with the Advance 6030C and not their Swisscut 8372? Seems like the swisscut would be closer to what I'd need for what I do, if its really any good.
    Let us know how it does. After how nice/clean the 690xt has been on my machines, no bacteria, smells ok, and no rust under anything and improved cutting(improved everything) over what I had been using, I'm a bit worried about trying anything else, other than this current foaming in the lathe, whatever is doing it, I think its just the amount of coolant spraying everywhere now.

    I mixed in 2 pails of old coolant from the mill, and got a few ounces of cimcool deformer from a local place so I put that in there with it.
    Filled the tank as high as I can and tipped it back a little to be sure the pump is least likely to be sucking air. It helped for maybe 20-30 minutes where it cut it maybe by half(foam was breaking down a bit faster), then the foam started building up more again. I added a piece of metal to divert it so it falls back into the tank and not the floor for now. It's only a 3min cycle, and then sits 2-3 minutes to calm the eff down...
    I had cleaned the machine pretty good before putting the new coolant in, but really even if I just mix it in a bucket with my drill mixer I can make it foam a bit anyhow so maybe its my water but I'm not so sure. They say it shouldn't foam(don't they all..), but how many coolant companies also said their magic juice shouldn't rust, shouldn't varnish, and it shouldn't eat the paint off the entire machine, and it shouldn't do this, and it shouldn't do that, and it f*cking did.

    So anyway, I'll run it like that for a little while longer to see if it settles itself once its gone around for a bit, and if it doesn't I'll just have to save it for the mill and try something else. Needs to be real good in stainless/duplex and such, some holes I gotta drill soon are .937dia by 4" deep.

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    Something I mention to my guys once in awhile when we have an issue with foaming.

    Dial it back.

    Every operation does not need full force blasting coolant...turning a diameter just needs to have chips flowing and taking heat away. Its a lathe, not a water jet machine. I have valves for that reason...turn it down, let the coolant suds settle down. Boring and need to blast the chips out, crank it up at that station.

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    Masterchemical TRIM E906 will Not foam. I've used it in apps where others foamed.

    Not affiliated, just what I've had good luck with.

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    Or just add in a cap full of defoamer once in a while.
    It's effect is pretty much instant.
    1 Gallon Bottle Anti-Foam/Defoamer 97571954 - MSC

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    It was closer to a cup of defoamer I put in it and it did next to eff all compared to what I was expecting/hoping.

    I didn't notice any valve/regulator to dial it back, right now she appears to be all or nothing and it's definitely a lot more coolant than most of these operations need, I suppose I could add my own 1" ball valve at the pump?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    It was closer to a cup of defoamer I put in it and it did next to eff all compared to what I was expecting/hoping.

    I didn't notice any valve/regulator to dial it back, right now she appears to be all or nothing and it's definitely a lot more coolant than most of these operations need, I suppose I could add my own 1" ball valve at the pump?
    Damn.
    I didn't read the entire thread, but do you have a lot of limestone in your water?

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    Not when it comes out of the softener nope, I also have a big carbon block filter ahead of that. No noticeable salt taste out of the softener, really the only other option would be distilled water, and eff that, if I go through that much trouble it'll be to put something else to try in that machine.

    I'm kinda realizing now that some list "low foaming" then "very low foaming" so I guess low foaming means some can be expected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exkenna View Post
    I just picked up an interesting product from Metalloid. It’s a botanical based coolant called Advance 6030C. Looks like the coolant industry finally figured out the issues related to bio-based coolants. No foam, no dermatitis, no stink, and no sticky residue. Plus it has a really nice rust package. Just a pleasant, trouble free product. It’s gone over huge with a lot of my local customers. A 5 gallon pail runs about $120

    ADDVANCE 6�3�C - Metalloid Corporation

    We’re replacing Hangsterfers and Trim e206 in 5 local shops next week ��
    If there is no chlorine, what is it using for slippery stuff??? And what does it smell like?
    And what kind of residue does it leave when the water evaporates out, I'm going to assume it
    rinses right off with more coolant like a soluble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    Something I mention to my guys once in awhile when we have an issue with foaming.

    Dial it back.

    Every operation does not need full force blasting coolant...turning a diameter just needs to have chips flowing and taking heat away. Its a lathe, not a water jet machine. I have valves for that reason...turn it down, let the coolant suds settle down. Boring and need to blast the chips out, crank it up at that station.

    Well, my first thought was "145 psi".

    Good grief - is that all the time?
    That would be nice for through the tool - but 30-40psi is plenty for general turning!
    You're just after volume, not pressure.
    Also note that higher pressure pumps add heat to the juice all day long.

    Seriously - are you sure that the 145 isn't an M coded option that you can turn off?
    If not - maybe you could split the plumbing and add a lower power pump inline and use another M code to run it?


    FWIW - I've never had my Trim SOL foam - even when the 1000psi+ pump was on.
    But I don't have a softener either...


    I don't think that I would want anything over 60psi as a constant pump.

    Actually - I just checked my older lathe and it runs at about 18#.
    (I have for and aft gauges on the sock filter housing.)
    Even the Gusher style pump on my HMC will throw lots of juice.
    I don't know what psi it is, but a Gusher style aint gunna be much...


    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox


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