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Need some help with portable CNC mill

Flash728

Aluminum
Joined
May 26, 2016
Hey there guys, once again I find myself in a position where I need to figure everything out with little to no experience around me. For those of you that remember a few years ago I was let loose on a Romi M27 lathe with zero experience. I have spent most of my time since that first shop working as a lathe operator at another shop. And here I am a few years later being let loose on a portable CNC mill. I momentarily had a "lead" machinist with 25+ years experience working with me but he left 2 weeks in for more pay at his previous employer. And for 2 months now I don't think my employer is going to hire a replacement.

For starters this mill was purchased new from Mirage, it came custom retrofitted with MachMotion Servos and Control. (I was not here for that decision making process) The machine has a max feed/rapid rate of about 40ipm and max spindle speed of 1500RPM. Also worth mentioning is that this machine has the rigidity of a wet kitchen sponge. The body of the machine is made of aluminum with some linear ways bolted to the top. The lead screw is 10MM per turn and is attached to the servo through a 40:1 gearbox. Sadly the backlash on this machine is 0.018 on the Y and about .032 on the X.

On to the application, this machine was purchased with the intention to machine pockets into large forging dies made of FX2 die steel. The pockets are about 6x12.5x2.17. We intend to layout the location of the pockets onto the dies then bolt the machine to the die itself and machine the pockets that way since moving these 45,000lb dies is quite a challenge.

As for tooling, originally the powers that be decided that we should purchase high feed high speed tooling with the hopes of watching this aluminum bodied machine run around at 100ipm. Since most/all of my experience is running a lathe I'm not quite sure what tooling is best for a machine with such poor rigidity. We have 1in carbide endmills, we have 50MM (1.9865in) shell mills we have ball endmills for the bottom radii. The shell mills and inserts are from Tungaloy their TungTri line.

For programming I've been using a CAM package that came with the machine which they've called "Alexsys" but is labeled eCAM. Thats worked fine so far but it has its limitations.

Currently my problem is that even if I get it cutting beautifully with the 50MM shell mill, if it hits a hard spot or anything the whole Y axis will shake causing the inserts to smack the part and break.

Any help or advice would be appreciated. (Calling my employer an idiot is not constructive I've tried)
 
Hey there guys, once again I find myself in a position where I need to figure everything out with little to no experience around me. For those of you that remember a few years ago I was let loose on a Romi M27 lathe with zero experience. I have spent most of my time since that first shop working as a lathe operator at another shop. And here I am a few years later being let loose on a portable CNC mill. I momentarily had a "lead" machinist with 25+ years experience working with me but he left 2 weeks in for more pay at his previous employer. And for 2 months now I don't think my employer is going to hire a replacement.

For starters this mill was purchased new from Mirage, it came custom retrofitted with MachMotion Servos and Control. (I was not here for that decision making process) The machine has a max feed/rapid rate of about 40ipm and max spindle speed of 1500RPM. Also worth mentioning is that this machine has the rigidity of a wet kitchen sponge. The body of the machine is made of aluminum with some linear ways bolted to the top. The lead screw is 10MM per turn and is attached to the servo through a 40:1 gearbox. Sadly the backlash on this machine is 0.018 on the Y and about .032 on the X.

On to the application, this machine was purchased with the intention to machine pockets into large forging dies made of FX2 die steel. The pockets are about 6x12.5x2.17. We intend to layout the location of the pockets onto the dies then bolt the machine to the die itself and machine the pockets that way since moving these 45,000lb dies is quite a challenge.

As for tooling, originally the powers that be decided that we should purchase high feed high speed tooling with the hopes of watching this aluminum bodied machine run around at 100ipm. Since most/all of my experience is running a lathe I'm not quite sure what tooling is best for a machine with such poor rigidity. We have 1in carbide endmills, we have 50MM (1.9865in) shell mills we have ball endmills for the bottom radii. The shell mills and inserts are from Tungaloy their TungTri line.

For programming I've been using a CAM package that came with the machine which they've called "Alexsys" but is labeled eCAM. Thats worked fine so far but it has its limitations.

Currently my problem is that even if I get it cutting beautifully with the 50MM shell mill, if it hits a hard spot or anything the whole Y axis will shake causing the inserts to smack the part and break.

Any help or advice would be appreciated. (Calling my employer an idiot is not constructive I've tried)

.
without knowing exact cutting parameters it is difficult to calculate hp and cutting forces. hard spots or slag in metal is always hard on cutting tools. if inserts are near their limits it dont take much to exceed limits and loose the inserts. on the other hand i have seen same mill used from F20. to F60. feed and it dont matter much if it hits a big enough hard spot it will experience sudden tool failure either way. i would recommend operator stay near the feed hold button. a facemill with carbide inserts in general is expensive and a extra minute waiting to stop can easily cause so much damage as to be a total loss
.
some big thick inserts can take 200% more feed cause they are big and thick. usually they leave a bad finish. so you use a rougher and a separate finisher mill
 
Id consider that setup a router, neat that it has a control. That much backlash will chip carbide fast.

Your best bet would be HSS tooling, however that might be difficult with the die steel.

Did the purchaser demand a machine runoff at Mirage?
 
its like having a 1.5hp bridgeport mill. just cause you can put a 3" or 4" or 6" facemill on it dont mean the machine can handle it
.
usually if machine has a low hp motor that tells you a lot on what it can take.
 
Have you tried contacting Mirage? Googling, I see they have an office in Texas. Nothing that I saw on their site about CNC though.

From the sounds of everything from them they just slapped some servos on it and called it a day.
 
its like having a 1.5hp bridgeport mill. just cause you can put a 3" or 4" or 6" facemill on it dont mean the machine can handle it
.
usually if machine has a low hp motor that tells you a lot on what it can take.

They put a 7.5 HP spindle on it
 
From the sounds of everything from them they just slapped some servos on it and called it a day.

.
i have used small (about 30" long and maybe 300lb) portable mills before. i believe it had a 1/2 or 3/4 hp motor on it. it did ok on small slots. never had problems with 3/8 or 1/2" dia end mills. to be honest it was not ever rated for heavy duty milling. in general a 1.5hp mill puts out about 1hp at the spindle after going through belts and gear box. and 1hp usually can machine in 1018 steel about 1 cubic inch per minute per hp. if its 304 SS you might only do 0.3 cubic inches per minute per hp
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just saying if machine got a small motor that tells a lot on what it is designed to do
.
backlash usually there is way to tighten mechanical backlash and most cnc controls have backlash compensation that it when screw rotation reversed they turn extra to compensate for backlash. usually use indicator and measure 0.100" forward and back and adjust till its close to 0.100" either turning screw forward or backward. not saying you will ever get <.0005 backlash but usually if you got over .004" backlash it can be adjusted to get most of it out. thats done usually by parameter adjustment at the cnc control
 
Id consider that setup a router, neat that it has a control. That much backlash will chip carbide fast.

Your best bet would be HSS tooling, however that might be difficult with the die steel.

Did the purchaser demand a machine runoff at Mirage?

I honestly couldn't tell you, when I was hired the machine was supposed to be here already. We do have some HSS roughing endmill that I could try.
 
They put a 7.5 HP spindle on it

7.5hp motor if electronic speed control you might get 2. hp at the spindle. with a gear box you might get 5hp at spindle.
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in general 1hp will mill 1 cubic inch per minute of soft 1018 steel. so 5 cubic inches per minute and if harder metal maybe only 2 cubic inches per minute is limit
 
OK it's a whacky machine, but the application kind of makes sense, so the question comes down to "what is the best sort of endmill to use for this wet kitchen sponge machine?"

First, the milling parameters don't change just because somebody put a CNC on it, so seek out what tooling Mirage or their users would suggest for some similar task using it as a manual mill. (They may not have an answer for die steel, if I grok they're market it's about field repairs to mining, power, and marine machinery rather than stamping or injection tools.)
But it's a place to start.

Second, for CNC, start by slowing down from a workable manual speed - because the manual operator (you) will often make subtle corrections that the CNC won't.
 
loose machine even with cnc control you treat that it has backlash and avoid climb milling
.
corncob roughing end mill can usually mill more with less vibration and hp needed
 
its like having a 1.5hp bridgeport mill. just cause you can put a 3" or 4" or 6" facemill on it dont mean the machine can handle it
.
usually if machine has a low hp motor that tells you a lot on what it can take.

So right....
However, if someone took the complet Bridgeport mill, and cut it up,
and used the ways (and leadscrews) they would built a much better machine
than the OP has pictured.

Aluminum Channel ? In a cantilevered config ?

HaHaHaHa !

In a pinch with management ? I would see if a used master mill
could be found of comparable travels, and move the servo's
over to it.
 
So right....
However, if someone took the complet Bridgeport mill, and cut it up,
and used the ways (and leadscrews) they would built a much better machine
than the OP has pictured.

Aluminum Channel ? In a cantilevered config ?

HaHaHaHa !

In a pinch with management ? I would see if a used master mill
could be found of comparable travels, and move the servo's
over to it.

the portable mills i used were never heavy duty but certainly 100 faster than trying to hand drill and file a slot or saw cut a opening and file saw cut straight
.
my guess is he is limited to 1" dia end mill and possibility of 2" dia facemill taking low depth of cut cuts. not like he going to take .25 DOC with 2" facemill and slot at over 30 ipm feed (that would require about 15hp on 1018 steel)
 
my eyes are old and those pics aren't the best, but are those ballscrews? even with rolled and polished ballscrews you should have very little backlash.
 
i would try .50 dia carbide endmills. maybe a cob one to rough out, maybe not even.
a .50 dia carbide 4 flute can do good work and does'nt tug so hard.
 
That is a neat idea for a machine, too bad it seem executed poorly.

My initial thought would be slowed down High speed style machining to reduce cutting forces, but with that much slop that would never work.

I would try using 3/8" or 1/2" roughing endmills with a corner chamfer to reinforce the corner. I would use conventional pocketing strategies and limit your axial depth of cut starting at maybe .030 to .060 to reduce the load on your noodle like machine. You will wear tooling faster only using the very end but should get the job done. If that works you could try bumping up you depth of cut till you find the machine's limit.
 








 
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