need a used cnc mill for tool room under $50k
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  1. #1
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    Default need a used cnc mill for tool room under $50k

    This is a maintenance / toolroom at a power plant. We have to replace an old Sam7 cnc vertical mill that is on its last leg. I've been given a budget of $50k to replace the machine. I would like to stay with a cat 40 spindle to utilize all of our current tooling. We have a Troyke 4th axis that I would like to utilize also, but if not, the new machine will need to come with one. I would like to have a minimum of 30"x20"x20" work envelope. A 10k spindle would be nice, but not mandatory. Our programming system is Gibbscam, but it would be nice to have some kind of conversational package in the control. Thru spindle coolant would be nice, but not a deal killer. Machine will not see a lot of spindle time, but will need to be dependable. It might set for weeks. My biggest cutter is a 3" facemill.
    Before anyone starts on the "You can't play this game for that price!" rant, it was a knock down drag out for me to get this much money. The irony is that I'm looking at a part sitting on my desk that is the size of a salt shaker, costs $20K from the supplier. I built four for less than $1k of my time.
    What are my options?
    Thanks
    i_r_machinist

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    Look for a Hurco VM2 or VM20. You wont regret it.

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    R & J Machinery Sales - Used Machinery for Sale

    They buy and resell some of our old machines. They are stand up guys that I trust 100 percent

    Ask for Jeff Jr.

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    If your budget is $50K and your not doing production on it why not look at something new like a Fryer. We have been running the toolroom one for going on 5 yrs and haven't had a problem at all. It will mill holes to within 0.001 all day. The model we have is CAT 40 and a work envelope of 50x24x24. May be a little slow by todays standards but rapid on this one is 200ipm with feed at 80. With a 4500 rpm spindle it is plenty but again your not running production. The one we have has an Anilam 3000 controller but I think the new ones are using a Siemens.

    I have learned on this one so maybe I'm partial but from your description of what you need one for I think it would be something to look into.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_r_machinist View Post
    This is a maintenance / toolroom at a power plant. ....I would like to stay with a cat 40 spindle to utilize all of our current tooling. We have a Troyke 4th axis that I would like to utilize also, but if not, the new machine will need to come with one. I would like to have a minimum of 30"x20"x20" work envelope. A 10k spindle would be nice, but not mandatory. Our programming system is Gibbscam, but it would be nice to have some kind of conversational package in the control. Thru spindle coolant would be nice, but not a deal killer. ...
    Thanks
    i_r_machinist
    Wow, I am impressed that a power plant would be so forward looking. What sort of plant is it? Most fossil plants I have been around are lucky to have a Bridgeport turret mill and an Asian engine lathe and drill press of dubious quality.

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    There are new atrumps about that size range that are probably under $50K (not sure about 4th axis) - mostly centroid control (which I like fine) - I'm talking about a bed mill without any enclosure and no tool changer. (They have those too, but of course price goes up)
    Do you need an enclosure? Do you need tool changer?

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    This is the most expensive nuke plant ever built with a $13 billion price tag. Cost plus was not a good move on the construction bid. One of the big-wiggs in accounting comes to the shop during outages and helps us. We had several long talks about a replacement machine and I feel like he is the one that made this happen.
    I have not seen a Fryer or a Kitamura. Had my hands on the Haas toolroom model and was thoroughly unimpressed. I've been in here for 13 years, so don't have much first hand knowledge of modern mills. Back in the '90s I thought the sun rose and set on Okuma. I have a friend that has a Haas VF2 that he speaks pretty highly of.
    customer

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    For Non-production use but still decent accuracy I'd go with a VF1 or 2 by Haas with a 210 rotary. Very abundant source of these machines floating around, unfortunately the price on Haas is climbing every day.

    I don't know much about Hurco, but I wouldn't be scared to go that route myself. Know a shop foreman down the road that swears by them.

    my 2 cents....

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    Haas has come a long way over the last ten years. I would recommend a Haas any day of the week. Very easy to run and the newer models have the conversational type programming. If you look around at the used market you should be able to find what your looking for in your price range.

    Good Luck!

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    Is there anyone in the area that has a Hurco? You want to see someone play with one in person. The are basically designed for 1,2,4-off parts... Fast, relatively rigid, have nothing but good to say about Hurco VMC's. There is a nicely optioned out one on everybody's favorite auction site for 28.5K complete with TSC a renishaw probe and all the software options such as DXF import and etc...... at that price you can get it shipped, rigged, installed and the 4th figured out for your 50K allowance...

    If you don't want it, I kinda do! ;-)

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    Personally, I would go for a $40k VMC and a save $10k for a CAM system and a PC. But that's just me. Your place might not go for it.

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    They prolly wouldn't go for the cam system because they already have one.

    How bout this.

    Okuma MC V4020 CNC Vertical Machining Center | eBay

    This is one badass machine but a little outa the price range, but it has been for sale for awhile and it does say make offer.

    2003 Okuma MB 56VB w OSP 700L Control "Video" | eBay

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    Default Re: need a used cnc mill for tool room under $50k

    Another vote for Hurco for short run stuff. Very quick programming. No real need for CAM unless you are doing real complicated parts. They even have an option for basic 3D machining without CAM. I haven't used it but it looks good.

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    The 2005 Hardinge that alphonso posted is for sale by 520 machinery. They are great to deal with. They sold a couple of my Haas machines in less than two weeks. They bought both machines and had a check to me the next day. When they sold they were still on my floor. I can't say enough good things about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edster View Post
    The 2005 Hardinge that alphonso posted is for sale by 520 machinery. They are great to deal with. They sold a couple of my Haas machines in less than two weeks. They bought both machines and had a check to me the next day. When they sold they were still on my floor. I can't say enough good things about them.
    Maybe to sell to. Not that great to buy from.

    Picked up a used Haas from them. Went to inspect it, tool changer faults out, Y axis grid shift is off. Tech say "we'll stand behind the machine 100%". I told the sales guy to fix it and I'll buy it. Guess what didn't work when I got it?

    They were supposed to "prep machine for shipping". They threw a piece of wood inside it somewhere that was laying the chip when it arrived. No one pulled the pin to swing the control panel over to make it legal width for shipping. No one un hooked the cat track on top so it would not be wrecked by the tarps. My truck driver just about walked away.

    I ended up having to reset the spindle orientation, fix the broken cat track, and I still have to reset the grid shift.

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    I agree that the Okuma 4020 is a smokin badass machine, but that $50k is a hard number.

    13 years without a tool changer is long enough.

    A cnc knee mill is a great tool. We will still have one, a Sam6, after we get the new machine.

    I have always heard good things about Hurco and Mazak, and would love see either one in action. I start another post to see if anyone in day-trip range has one I can go look at.

    I'm not really getting my hopes up because the last time I was told to recommend a machine, a plasma table, I selected an industrial model with 2" cut capacity for around $140K. My supervisor told me that purchasing approved my request abut made a few changes.
    We got a $12k Samson 5X10 with a 5/8" plate max table weight.
    more later
    have fun
    i_r_

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Maybe to sell to. Not that great to buy from.

    Picked up a used Haas from them. Went to inspect it, tool changer faults out, Y axis grid shift is off. Tech say "we'll stand behind the machine 100%". I told the sales guy to fix it and I'll buy it. Guess what didn't work when I got it?

    They were supposed to "prep machine for shipping". They threw a piece of wood inside it somewhere that was laying the chip when it arrived. No one pulled the pin to swing the control panel over to make it legal width for shipping. No one un hooked the cat track on top so it would not be wrecked by the tarps. My truck driver just about walked away.

    I ended up having to reset the spindle orientation, fix the broken cat track, and I still have to reset the grid shift.
    Did you buy the machine from their stock or off the previous owners floor?

    I keep the shipping brackets for all my machines so I was able to install the original shipping brackets for the machines I sold them. I'm willing to bet most shops probably throw away the shipping bracket right after they take it off. People also have different ideas about what it means to prep a machine for shipping. When I bought a Fadal VMC from a friend that was closing his shop I asked him to install the shipping bracket. When I got there he had installed the bracket to the table and the other end had the spindle resting on it. The factory mounts it to the underside of the head. Good thing he didn't have the power disconnected yet so I could install it in the right spot. He also didn't clean the machine at all. It still had the chip conveyor in the coolant tank and it was full of chips and coolant. Really, do you think the riggers are gonna take the coolant tank when it's still full of coolant. The machine was so dirty that the riggers didn't want to put their tarps on it.

    Just curious why you bought a used Haas anyway I thought you had Okumas.

  24. #19
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    Well, That lasted all of five days! I was just told that the machine has been moved to next years budget. [email protected]#$%^&*()
    i_r_

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Maybe to sell to. Not that great to buy from.

    Picked up a used Haas from them. Went to inspect it, tool changer faults out, Y axis grid shift is off. Tech say "we'll stand behind the machine 100%". I told the sales guy to fix it and I'll buy it. Guess what didn't work when I got it?

    They were supposed to "prep machine for shipping". They threw a piece of wood inside it somewhere that was laying the chip when it arrived. No one pulled the pin to swing the control panel over to make it legal width for shipping. No one un hooked the cat track on top so it would not be wrecked by the tarps. My truck driver just about walked away.

    I ended up having to reset the spindle orientation, fix the broken cat track, and I still have to reset the grid shift.
    Sorry about all this. I work for 520 Machinery and check these forums on a regular basis so that is what is prompting me to respond. Please give me your contact info via PM or just respond on this thread as quickly as possible. I'm not sure which machine this is. If we said we were going to fix the toolchanger fault and Y axis grid and it showed up not fixed.....no good (this doesn't sound right at all).


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