New clear Blaser Synergy 735 coolant? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    I have been saying forever, the best coolant I have used was Castrol Hysol MB50. No stink, no film, no residue, etc. I was only cutting alum, and using dei water to top off, sure that makes a difference. Had it in the machine for 2 years without changing and was as good as new.

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    I no longer trust Blaser. I had issues with coolant leaving a sticky residue behind It started taking the paint off the cast iron and sticky mess on anything galvanized...It was put in a brand new lathe. Talked with the Blaser rep. They have reformulated the 735 to handle the issue with the coolant. They say the new formula will take care of the problems.
    However they continue to sell the current formula of the Synergy 735. To me the fact they continue to sell the current
    formula is terrible. They know it's a problem.

    He told me the new version of the coolant will be out in June.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba73 View Post
    I no longer trust Blaser. I had issues with coolant leaving a sticky residue behind It started taking the paint off the cast iron and sticky mess on anything galvanized...It was put in a brand new lathe. Talked with the Blaser rep. They have reformulated the 735 to handle the issue with the coolant. They say the new formula will take care of the problems.
    However they continue to sell the current formula of the Synergy 735. To me the fact they continue to sell the current
    formula is terrible. They know it's a problem.

    He told me the new version of the coolant will be out in June.
    Same exact experience and problem.

    I put Synergy 735 in my brand new machine that's never seen coolant before. The salesman told me it's the best thing since sliced bread, and every single customer has been overjoyed with the stuff and if I can get it to underperform in any way, let them know because I'd be the first.

    Right from the start, the stuff leaves a slimy residue everywhere, and it's THICK. Not like the thin gummy film from Blasocut 2000, but drips of this stuff congeal into 1/16" high slimy blobs all over the machine. Got in touch with Blaser salesman, he immediately said it was a known issue and new version is coming soon. I asked if they will swap out what I got - he said no need... just start using the new stuff and over time the concentration of old to new will mean it's all new. I wasn't too happy about being told they never heard of a single problem, only to hear a week or two later that this is a known issue. Also not happy that they aren't providing replacement pails to people that paid for a known underperforming/defective product.

    Also not happy that they still haven't given me the free 5-gallon pail I was promised back in February. At this point, I want a free pail of the new stuff.

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    Blaser never had a great reputation on this board. I don't get why so many folks are diving in head first with their new stuff. Drinking the Titan Kool-Aid?

    I can't take Kennametal seriously because of that guy. I feel if I use any of their tools, my machines will go BOOM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kazlx View Post
    Yea I would suggest cleaning it out, then mixing up a light solution maybe 1-2% and just washing everything and letting it run through the machine for maybe like an hour. Then empty and re charge with new desired concentration.
    What are you doing with your spent coolant? I hope it's not going down the drain.

    Draining out all your old coolant, filling it back up with a light charge, then draining it all out again, just to make sure this new, unproven stuff comes out clear, is an absolute no-go for any shop that's doing this legitimately. Coolant disposal costs as much as the coolant itself.

    A lot of coolant companies will give you enough free product to fill your sump for the first time. But they won't pay to have Safety Kleen haul it away if it sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radar987 View Post
    Blaser never had a great reputation on this board. I don't get why so many folks are diving in head first with their new stuff. Drinking the Titan Kool-Aid?

    I can't take Kennametal seriously because of that guy. I feel if I use any of their tools, my machines will go BOOM.
    I always felt Blaser had a great reputation here - they were one of the few suppliers who you didn't hear very much bad about (along with Oemeta and Hangsterfers). I really liked the BlasoCut 2000 Universal. I only switched to QualiChem because the price on 2000 kept going up and up, and I heard good things about Qualichem. I liked the Blaser better - it smelled better and seemed to stay good longer, but the Qualichem was OK too.

    I tried out the Synergy 735 because I like the idea of clear coolant. And clear coolant is a very good thing, after having tried it out. I can see if my sump is full of fines. I can see the quality of the coolant largely by looking at it (i.e. how much tramp oil is in it). It lets me more easily see in the windows of the machine while it's running. I can still see in pockets and part features even though they are full of coolant, to see if a finish cut left a good finish, or if a counterbore intersected with a perpendicular hole, etc. Just overall the promise of this coolant is good.

    The only downside is this gummy/greasy slime it leaves everywhere. All coolants leave residue when the water evaporates away from the coolant that's splashed on doors/vises/fixtures. 2000 left behind basically the original oil it was made from. This 735 leaves behind this clear jelly-like stuff. It does re-dissolve once coolant hits it again... it's just like it holds onto water more or something, so the residue is thicker, tackier, gummier than with other coolants.

    If they can fix that problem, this stuff will be the best coolant I've ever used. But it's expensive, and it sucks when you are told A but the truth is B. And I think a few of us using it feel we should get the new stuff at no cost to replace what we bought so far, or at least a free initial fill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radar987 View Post
    What are you doing with your spent coolant? I hope it's not going down the drain.
    Haha, I love it when people are like: "Just drain the tank, mix up a 2% solution, rinse the machine out for a bit, refill with new!"

    Dude... It's $200 to get rid of a 55 gallon drum of any kind of machine coolant here in Portland! A "simple" coolant swap on my little Speedio is a $400 endeavor with a full rinse tank and all the fixings. More importantly, it is a massive pain in the ass that will take a full afternoon.

    I buy premium coolant primarily because I want something durable that will require as little maintenance and babysitting as possible. If I wanted to play chemist with a bunch of test strips and osmosis filtered water, I would be one of those saltwater aquarium people.

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    It also takes the paint off painted cast iron surfaces. They admit the coolant has a problem. It's a joke they knowingly sell a product that is a problem.

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    What is the Brix to % multiplier? What does it have to be for a coolant to be considered clear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Haha, I love it when people are like: "Just drain the tank, mix up a 2% solution, rinse the machine out for a bit, refill with new!"

    Dude... It's $200 to get rid of a 55 gallon drum of any kind of machine coolant here in Portland! A "simple" coolant swap on my little Speedio is a $400 endeavor with a full rinse tank and all the fixings. More importantly, it is a massive pain in the ass that will take a full afternoon.

    I buy premium coolant primarily because I want something durable that will require as little maintenance and babysitting as possible. If I wanted to play chemist with a bunch of test strips and osmosis filtered water, I would be one of those saltwater aquarium people.

    I agree that it is a big and time consuming process, but $400 is the deal breaker? Maybe it is just the size of shop or industry I am in, but $400 isn't even worth considering. I spend more than that on consumable tooling daily.

    On topic though, the residue is a big pain. We have been running this coolant for a while now, and I am liking it less and less. Recommended concentration is around 8%. We have several machines running at 14-18% because we keep breaking taps in expensive castings. Rep is coming out today to discuss more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mneuro View Post
    I agree that it is a big and time consuming process, but $400 is the deal breaker? Maybe it is just the size of shop or industry I am in, but $400 isn't even worth considering. I spend more than that on consumable tooling daily.
    He's talking about a single, 50 gallon sump.

    No way you're spending $400 on tooling daily on one BT30 spindle.

    If you have a combined 2000 gallons total sump volume, what was previously $400 is now $16,000. All that so you can have clear coolant. BOOM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radar987 View Post
    He's talking about a single, 50 gallon sump.

    No way you're spending $400 on tooling daily on one BT30 spindle.

    If you have a combined 2000 gallons total sump volume, what was previously $400 is now $16,000. All that so you can have clear coolant. BOOM.
    I realize what he was saying, I am just commenting on how the cost of doing a coolant change should be pretty insignificant in the big picture. And if you are only switching coolants because you want it to be clear your priorities are probably not in the right place from the get go. We switched for skin irritation issues.

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    I picked up a 5 gallon and have delaying the switch because of the PIA to clean out. I have a 55 gallon drum out back with a bubbler, so I have limited space to properly handle the waste oil. The bubbler comes on with the lights in my shop, so eventually, I'll just have concentrated waste oil to dispose (it's working, just slowly. Scrappers keep pulling the lid off thinking I'm hiding something of value in it). I'm definitely not doing a full charge at 2% for cleaning. Not sure how that will go.

    I don't know. 5 gallons will hold my 1 machine shop for probably a year. $50 adder (over BC940) to be clear is worth it to me. Possibly less pestilent is nice too. Hope my paint holds on.

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    If the clear goo re-emulsifies I might try it. I have (I think) BC940 right now and have not been happy with it. I had several issues with BC40? Blazer said they weren’t possible. I sent pictures. They said it was my water. Sent a sample of both coolant and water, they said my water had 1 ppm higher magnesium something? Than their allowable spec. It’s city water. They recommended the 735. I was quoted $300 / 5 gal pal by the time you include shipping. This requires RO water, I use on average 5 gal of water per 8 hrs of run time. Depending on where and how I buy water, that’s over $2k/yr on water.

    My biggest problem with the 940 is it does NOT re-emulsify. I get brown goo all over everything. It’s pissing me off because I keep finding chips smashed on tool holders after they’ve been run through the spindle. If I was down the brown goo, it just goes into the sump as brown goo or foam.

    Based on how they handled the rust issues I doubt I would believe their hype on the 735.

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    BC940 has been great for me. It re-emulsifies just fine. When I go on vacation, I turkey baste my tools with it. I'll switch right back if the 735 isn't as good or better.

    RO: I bought a $200 RO kit from Amazon. The only issue is the pressure and volume is low, so I will have to stage RO water for the initial fill.

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    I started running the 735 in my new machine when I bought it in November. It runs a grease system so not having way oil contamination issues it seemed like an easy time to try it and didnít require a full machine cleanout. Have not seen any issues with paint, not experiencing the globing issues people are talking about. When I come in in the morning basically everything is dry with a light film in areas where it puddled. Iím not using RO water but we are on a well with a very good filtration system. I bought the $200 amazon thing and itís basically useless so I havenít been bothering.

    Pros: - being able to see in the sump is great. It is fully clear and you can see the fines.
    - inside of the machine stays very clean
    - very easy to see through the windows while proofing out a part.
    - rinses off parts, hands, etc, very easily

    Cons: - definitely has a strong smell. It mellows out after a week but when itís fresh itís pretty intense and kind of acrid. Happens anytime you recharge with fresh coolant.
    - Expeeeeeeeeensive. Iím a fairly low volume user and in the grand scheme of things coolant is very cheap for what it provides. But still, lots of money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mneuro View Post
    I agree that it is a big and time consuming process, but $400 is the deal breaker? Maybe it is just the size of shop or industry I am in, but $400 isn't even worth considering. I spend more than that on consumable tooling daily.

    On topic though, the residue is a big pain. We have been running this coolant for a while now, and I am liking it less and less. Recommended concentration is around 8%. We have several machines running at 14-18% because we keep breaking taps in expensive castings. Rep is coming out today to discuss more.
    $400 isn't a big deal for a once every year or so coolant replacement...

    But if I buy an expensive pail of uber-coolant, and it is total shit, being told to "simply" swap it out for a fresh batch is a huge Fuck You.

    When I went with QualiChem 250C, my first and only real question was "Is this stuff stable, low maintenance, and zero fuckery?" That is my primary purchasing driver with coolant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    $400 isn't a big deal for a once every year or so coolant replacement...

    But if I buy an expensive pail of uber-coolant, and it is total shit, being told to "simply" swap it out for a fresh batch is a huge Fuck You.

    When I went with QualiChem 250C, my first and only real question was "Is this stuff stable, low maintenance, and zero fuckery?" That is my primary purchasing driver with coolant.
    Im so frustrated with coolant right now I'm with you, F bombs and all.

    Hangsterfers S-396 was fine but if left brown crud all over so after many hours of research I went to Qualichem 250C which didnt really have the best tool life for some of the hardened powdered metals we machine. I went to 251C which is fine and the machine stays clean but my operator complained about the smell. I don't blame her. It smells like a urinal cake. She's the best operator I've ever had and she never complains about anything so it's going.

    The local people I buy from have Trim 585XT, 690XT, E206 and lots of Blaser stuff. I asked him if he could ask the people that buy the 585 if they notice any odor at all. All he said was "only one guy complained and he wasn't using it right" which doesn't help me, and kind of annoyed me because I've been buying from them for 20+ years now and I'm having an issue and could use some support from them. My operator is apparently sensitive to certain smells. I've used E206 and it's fine but I wanted the bacteria resistance of the semi synthetics. I asked him if I could get a sample of Trim or Blaser, even a small amount so I could make a pail and see what the odor is like. "No, they don't do that" he says. I just scrubbed my tanks out to switch to Qualichem and I'll do it again to make the operator happy but I sure as hell don't want to do it a third time.

    Here's what I've learned from this adventure:

    1. Online coolant reviews are subjective. You can't go by them.
    2. Coolant salesman suck. ALL of them.


    There was a third thing but I forgot what it was and don't care anymore after all this typing. Just See #2 for #3.

    *edit*

    Oh yeah, the #3 thing is all coolant seems to be a compromise of some sort but you have to buy in to find out exactly what it is you're just going to have to deal with. So.... See #2 again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volitan View Post
    Im so frustrated with coolant right now I'm with you, F bombs and all.

    Hangsterfers S-396 was fine but if left brown crud all over so after many hours of research I went to Qualichem 250C which didnt really have the best tool life for some of the hardened powdered metals we machine. I went to 251C which is fine and the machine stays clean but my operator complained about the smell. I don't blame her. It smells like a urinal cake. She's the best operator I've ever had and she never complains about anything so it's going.

    The local people I buy from have Trim 585XT, 690XT, E206 and lots of Blaser stuff. I asked him if he could ask the people that buy the 585 if they notice any odor at all. All he said was "only one guy complained and he wasn't using it right" which doesn't help me, and kind of annoyed me because I've been buying from them for 20+ years now and I'm having an issue and could use some support from them. My operator is apparently sensitive to certain smells. I've used E206 and it's fine but I wanted the bacteria resistance of the semi synthetics. I asked him if I could get a sample of Trim or Blaser, even a small amount so I could make a pail and see what the odor is like. "No, they don't do that" he says. I just scrubbed my tanks out to switch to Qualichem and I'll do it again to make the operator happy but I sure as hell don't want to do it a third time.

    Here's what I've learned from this adventure:

    1. Online coolant reviews are subjective. You can't go by them.
    2. Coolant salesman suck. ALL of them.


    There was a third thing but I forgot what it was and don't care anymore after all this typing. Just See #2 for #3.

    *edit*

    Oh yeah, the #3 thing is all coolant seems to be a compromise of some sort but you have to buy in to find out exactly what it is you're just going to have to deal with. So.... See #2 again.
    I talked to a guy yesterday at Eastec from Qualichem - super nice guy and my BS detector did not go off at all. He was a wealth of information and talked and pro's and con's of their coolants. You might ask Qualichem who that guy is (seemed to be in his 30's and IIRC brownish/ginger hair and I think a beard). Straight shooter.

    Another option - my Qualichem rep is top notch - Wayne Rousseau. He sells other brands as well and is more of a fellow machinist who stops by to help rather than a salesman. He has zero salesman BS about him. His email is mhrnorth - at - yahoo - dot - com. Even if he isn't your local guy, he will steer you right.. he knows all about additives, coolant perfumes and sells other stuff besides Qualichem so isn't shilling their stuff.

    Another option - one thing I liked about Blaser BlasoCut 2000 was that it smelled nice. I know exactly the smell you're talking about with Qualichem... just kind of... chemical and slightly off-putting. Blaser 2000 smelled nice, hard to describe but it's good and it was a pretty good coolant too. I don't use it anymore, but the shop next door does.. if you want to smell test it, shoot me a PM and I'll get a little bottle of the stuff and send you and you can mix it up and see if your employee is OK with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    $400 isn't a big deal for a once every year or so coolant replacement...

    But if I buy an expensive pail of uber-coolant, and it is total shit, being told to "simply" swap it out for a fresh batch is a huge Fuck You.

    When I went with QualiChem 250C, my first and only real question was "Is this stuff stable, low maintenance, and zero fuckery?" That is my primary purchasing driver with coolant.
    I know you're not replying to me, but one thing just to add is that I wouldn't say the 735 is total shit. Not that you said it was... just don't want that to be the vibe on this thread.

    I also talked to Mike from Blaser at the Eastec show yesterday and he said the reformulated Blaser 735 has already been in production for a short while (maybe a week or two?) and shipments have started to go out to customers... but since it's just an updated version and not a replacement, vendors may still have stock on the older version so it may be some more weeks before customers are reliably getting version 2 from their vendors.


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