New DMG ecoMill = Mori DuraVertical

My shop is looking into another VMC. And what I was told by the DMG Mori salesman is that the new redesigned DMG Mori ecoMills are the new Mori DuraVerticals. Apparently the companies have been working on this combined machine since the merger.

I know there are a few fans of the DuraVerts on this forum. And I know there are a few posts about the (less then stellar) ecoMills. So I thought that I give this info out to you guys.

We currently have a 1035 ecoMill. And its not that impressive. But I will say that the new machines are a bigger, heavier machine... even the new 600V outweighs our 1035. There's not too much info on the website, so I don't know what else has been upgraded.

But we'll see if DMG screws this one up.

URGuys said:

My shop is looking into another VMC. And what I was told by the DMG Mori salesman is that the new redesigned DMG Mori ecoMills are the new Mori DuraVerticals. Apparently the companies have been working on this combined machine since the merger.

I know there are a few fans of the DuraVerts on this forum. And I know there are a few posts about the (less then stellar) ecoMills. So I thought that I give this info out to you guys.

We currently have a 1035 ecoMill. And its not that impressive. But I will say that the new machines are a bigger, heavier machine... even the new 600V outweighs our 1035. There's not too much info on the website, so I don't know what else has been upgraded.

But we'll see if DMG screws this one up.

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Our Ecomill is a piece thing is falling apart

URGuys said:

My shop is looking into another VMC. And what I was told by the DMG Mori salesman is that the new redesigned DMG Mori ecoMills are the new Mori DuraVerticals. Apparently the companies have been working on this combined machine since the merger.

I know there are a few fans of the DuraVerts on this forum. And I know there are a few posts about the (less then stellar) ecoMills. So I thought that I give this info out to you guys.

We currently have a 1035 ecoMill. And its not that impressive. But I will say that the new machines are a bigger, heavier machine... even the new 600V outweighs our 1035. There's not too much info on the website, so I don't know what else has been upgraded.

But we'll see if DMG screws this one up.

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New DMG ecoMill = MoriDuraVertical ?

Nope...

I had a good laugh at that one... You have a very creative sales guy I think. That would be wonderful or a really nice idea wouldn't it?... But I'm not seeing the "Heritage" there. Definitely with the NL versus NLX I.e. NLX 5100... The Mori connection/successor as I believe the NLXs are still made in Japan similarly with NL vs. NLX for lathes.

Are you going for a 600V specifically?

cameraman said:

New DMG ecoMill = MoriDuraVertical ?

Nope...

I had a good laugh at that one... You have a very creative sales guy I think. That would be wonderful or a really nice idea wouldn't it?... But I'm not seeing the "Heritage" there. Definitely with the NL versus NLX I.e. NLX 5100... The Mori connection/successor as I believe the NLXs are still made in Japan similarly with NL vs. NLX for lathes.

Are you going for a 600V specifically?

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Actually the 600V would be the only one that would fit through our door width. So that's the only one I got him to quote. And I told him we weren't too impressed with the 1035 we currently own.
And we don't make anything complicated, usually in aluminum, and no production. So we would waste a "real machine" lol.

I'm not too sure about the heritage that you mention. But if I was a company I wouldn't be offering the amount of spindles options, horsepower options, or even toolchanger capacity options that exist on the NV and NVX machines on an basic model machine like the ecoMill or DuraVertical. Even looking back at DuraVertical specs you can find on the net they weren't option heavy.
As for how the machines are built comparatively. That I have no idea about. Any literature online never mentions ballscrew specs, rail sizes, distance between rails, etc.

I have detailed specs on the Dura Verticals... I can probably dig something up... Busy right now but interested to have a look/ compare.

Actually now having a look I don't... I have a detailed quote with specs on a Dura Vertical 5100 and you'd be comparing a V600 to a Dura Vertical 5060 I guess? ...

If you go to All downloads and PDF documents from DMG MORI

All of the older machine pdf and brochures are there except the Dura Verticals... If you really want to compare the DV 5060 then your sales guy should have a detailed old brochure / pdf for that?

So a Dura Vertical 5100 weighs 14,100 lbs - ish... The equivalent ecomill V (1100V) weighs 12,897 lbs...

Given that your V600 table surface is 35" x 22" and the machine weighs 10,800 lbs "Weight" as such is not such a major issue perhaps. Maybe more about construction like hand scraped contacting surfaces vs. rudimentary grinding... Or how rigid is the head to the rest of the machine, can it take it beating or mild "crashes" or is the head "Fragile" and future re-alignment really difficult? So I'm wondering whether its more important perhaps to find out what the V600 IS... rather than comparing to a "distant" model? If you go to Davis you can probably find that all out and get a factory tour and all that? The basic difference is that the Dura Verticals are or were known to be "Good"... The V600 is not known to be "good" as it is new... I.e. has not been out there for long enough to be bought by many to be really field tested and had the snot smacked out of it. I think the basic problem with the older eco mills is that they were not very robust and parts failed a lot... I think its more about implementation than design. On paper a lot of things look good :-)

There is an eco model built in Davis, I want to say it's the Ecomill1100? And it is indeed the replacement of the Duravertical. I wouldn't compare it to the eco crap they were building in China.

I think it would be a hard "case" to show or demonstrate that an Ecomill 600V or 1100V is the same as a Dura Vertical except that it is wearing different clothes and control? I.e. the castings are the same etc...?

Base price on a Dura Vertical 5100 is/was $125K new ... The ecomill 1100v (extrapolating from Euro prices ) is $93K that's a difference of about $32K...? The smaller table sizes with Mori going from a 1000 mm machine to 800 mm machine to 600 mm machine usually only shift in price by $5k increments... So it maybe a Dura Vertical 5060 (type) maybe about $100K- to $115K; where as your V600 extrapolating Euro prices is $70K? Again a price difference of $30K...

As much as I would love to believe an Ecomill 600V is equivalent to a Dura Vertcal I find it hard to believe/skeptical as where is the missing $30K (worth of machine) ? :-)

I know / have heard that some dealers can still sell or score a Dura Vertical for a really good price/smok'n deal?

cameraman said:

I think it would be a hard "case" to show or demonstrate that an Ecomill 600V or 1100V is the same as a Dura Vertical except that it is wearing different clothes and control? I.e. the castings are the same etc...?

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It's not similar at all. It's simply the "replacement".

Joe788 said:

It's not similar at all. It's simply the "replacement".

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Ok... Who is saying that though? :-) You know what I mean..? If they are different machines in completely different lines from completely different times and different countries... Then to say the Ecomill V series is the replacement of the Dura Vertical is kinda stretching things a bit far?

I think all you can say is that the Dura Vertical got phased out and maybe in the constellation of the Eco-Machines that DMG mori may have made a slightly better "Eco Mill" than in previous years... I.e. the Eco mill V series does NOT appear to be directly descended from the Dura Vertical... So it's a bit of misleading/manipulative sales pitch to say that an Ecomill 1100V is the replacement of a DV 5100? It comes across as trying to make the buyer "Believe" by association that that is true... Whereas in fact there is nothing in the DMG Mori literature that indicates that would be the case... Hence OP's original question.

cameraman said:

Ok... Who is saying that though? :-)

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The engineering manager for that product was giving the tour of the factory.

So it's a bit of misleading/manipulative sales pitch to say theat an Ecomill 1100V is the replacement of a DV 5100?

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Meh. Not really. 15 years ago Mazak's VCN-510 was a replacement for the small funky VTC models, and it was better in every way despite being cheaper and a 100% completely different machine structure/layout.

Now, whether or not the new eco1100 is better or worse than the Dura, would have to be figured out by somebody who's actually interested in buying one - which ain't me.

Joe788 said:

The engineering manager for that product was giving the tour of the factory.



Meh. Not really. 15 years ago Mazak's VCN-510 was a replacement for the small funky VTC models, and it was better in every way despite being cheaper and a 100% completely different machine structure/layout.

Now, whether or not the new eco1100 is better or worse than the Dura, would have to be figured out by somebody who's actually interested in buying one - which ain't me.

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So you actually got to see ecoline V series mills being built? Did they look good/sound? The engineering manager for the ecoline V mills was giving a tour of "His" or "Her" mills?

That's interesting... My local DMG Mori sales guy/people would almost rather die than sell me an eco-anything. I know things in the past have been rather sketchy (to say the least) but I'm not seeing any pitches that say this is going to be a blank slate and a completely new experience? Other than the words "New" and "Davis"... :-)

I agree the newer and different machines will have different "Qualities"... than The Dura. [Just arm chair guessing (from the literature) that the newer Ecoline V series will have higher positional accuracies than the Dura, BUT the Dura will be/is more Dura-ble )/long lasting machine that can possibly deliver better surface finishes and be more robust/take a beating than the Ecoline V]. That's not a "revelation", but will be interesting to see how reliable and robust the Ecoline V series mills will turn out to be?

The NEW revolutionary vertical milling technology - ecoMill V by DMG MORI - YouTube


It does use the term "Revolutionary" and "New" a lot... So is "Revolutionary" industry/sales speak for "Not completely rubbish"... (this time) ?

With other proven vmc's in the same price range (Okuma, Mazak, Hardinge, Doosan, etc.), I can't see taking a chance on a "new" DMGMori, that is supposedly a complete redesign of a previous model that was known to basically be a piece of crap??

A trip to Davis where it is being built (and previously Dura was built) will answer all questions posed here.

something to be aware of, the lead design for this machine just happens to be the engineer who designed the DuraVertical...

Cheers

Mori Guy said:

A trip to Davis where it is being built (and previously Dura was built) will answer all questions posed here.

something to be aware of, the lead design for this machine just happens to be the engineer who designed the DuraVertical...

Cheers

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I would like to do that.

Looking for an excuse to go to Davis (in general).

What you say is a bit more meaningful than supposition and or conjecture. Would be useful or interesting to see some test sheets on the Eco 1100V ? I am quite partial to the NVX5100 Amazingly accurate machine, but I think for me the Celos control may be total overkill for me as we don't have 25 new DMG Mori machines on the shop floor that need to be networked in a globally tasked way. A sound machine that is not fragile and designed by the designer of the Dura vertical (hopefully without being hampered by quality issue or reliability of components) might be a good or more appropriate fit... But obviously being haunted by the previous ecoline "issues" means taking a risk even if the newer machine "Promises" to be best of "New" and best of "Old" / Dura? You know what I mean?

I wonder what the 3d contouring capabilities and surface finishes would be like for NVX 5100 VS. New Eco 1100V? Assuming speed/production rate is not an issue.

Just a thought, did the lead or head designer/engineer of the Dura Verticals have a hand in the last generation of Eco line models/ ecomills?

Cheers! :-)

cameraman said:

Just a thought, did the lead or head designer/engineer of the Dura Verticals have a hand in the last generation of Eco line models/ ecomills?

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No

I pm'ed you if you would like to followup by email.

cameraman said:

I wonder what the 3d contouring capabilities and surface finishes would be like for NVX 5100 VS. New Eco 1100V? Assuming speed/production rate is not an issue.

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By the way, the NVX comes in very handy when people need a 50 taper vertical as that is a common option that is ordered.

Mori Guy said:

A trip to Davis where it is being built (and previously Dura was built) will answer all questions posed here.

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Our 2012 Dura 5100 was built in Japan.

Well it sounds likes like my salesman was correct. Thanks Mori Guy for providing more info. I thought this would be of some interest since it seems like there's a following on this site for the DuraVertical. At least the new machines aren't named DuraVertical... would hate for its name to be dragged through the mud because of this merger.

Getting to what cameraman said... base price on a Dura Vertical 5100 is/was $125K new. We received some numbers as well... old stock of ecoMill 1035 base price is $117K but they seem to have discounts to get rid of them. And the new 800V base is $108,500K. No prices on the 600V or 1100V yet.
So the 1035 that nobody seems to like was still ridiculous expensive for the quality of the machine. And the new ecoMill are quite expensive compared to a Korean/Taiwanese machines that have a reputation.

Has it sold yet I was going to go last Thursday but work happened.

I didn't think it was worth starting a new thread, so I hope people will notice a new post in this thread.

I'm just curious is any other manufacturer is making a c-frame vmc where the headstock moves in the y-axis. The old eco-mill 1035 does this, and taking with our salesman it seems that the new line of EcoMills will do the same thing.
I personally think this is a weakness in the design. If you want the head to move in y-axis, then build a dual column machine like the Okuma Genos.

I'm pretty sure we've ruled out the new line of DMG EcoMill machines for our shop based on previous experience, price, and no real world feedback... so this is just a question or discussion that popped into my head.