New DMG ecoMill = Mori DuraVertical - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    Enshu is a nice company but I can't give you one good reason to by one.
    Ok how about some BAD reasons to buy one ;-)

    It's all good, we are not talking about CMX or DMG Mori and I even take a peak at Robodrills again to remind myself of the specs.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    What have they had testing done on?
    I'm not sure of their complete testing history. Their current HSK63 machines still have trouble with the cuts the take.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jashley73 View Post
    I'm not sure of their complete testing history. Their current HSK63 machines still have trouble with the cuts the take.
    Depth of cut or width?

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Ok with my tin-foil hat firmly nailed to my head. "If only a brother could hold a new VCN (with a fourth axis of course) with that new SMOOTH-G control.........oh snap"




    Disambiguating/reverse engineering that statement LOL.

    Kinda begs the question what the DMG-mori "i-30 v" is? Apparently that was unveiled (according to the DMG Mori Japan/JIMTOF web site)? BUT it's impossible to find any web presence as to what that beasty may be? Also in this whole thread and discussion its also about industry trends. What types of machines are coming into favor and what types of machines are receding into the back ground... AND more importantly what machines in a product line up / set of offerings from an MTB are conspicuously missing?


    On the theme of things receding: ... Box ways machines for lower half of the market are definitely receding (at least for 3 axis verticals). [side note: In the case of the DMG Mori NVX series the common "observation"/minor complaint is that the spindle HP is total overkill especially for the smaller frame NVX models. Typically (as I have been told) for the NVX 5100 (box way beast) folks like to have that configured for 50 taper work.]

    On the theme of things coming into "Fashion"/coming into favor : 30 taper machines (for sure) ... (the amazing Brother and the seemingly unstoppable army of Robo drills). I'm wondering if DMG Mori would roll out a super rigid 30 taper machine... Proportionally as rigid as a Mazak VCN 530? I.e. a lot of iron/mass. And like the Mazak control "Corners" perfectly for super high speed moves and cuts. Kinda interesting that Mazak does not offer that?

    On the theme of things that are conspicuously missing on a product line up: So, OK we have NEW CMX machines (billed as "Better than Dura Verticals"), but still leaves a hole when the NVX 5100 is receding into the background. Ironically even Doosan, Hurco (VMX), and Mazak (just to name a few) have powerful, rigid and precise machines (of the weight/similar class (not quite) as the NVX 5100): All using rolling element/ crossed roller bearings, linear guides and trucks etc. So it's not an unbelievable stretch of the imagination for DMG - Mori to eventually roll out a machine that's not unlike the Mazak VCN 530C. OR even a bridge style machine also with linear guides rather than "BOX ways" (Even the venerable Hurco is rolling out a Bridge style machine). Target price (for imaginary DMG machine?) would be around $125K (base price)?... Just to make it difficult for the "other guys"?

    Also what's missing (perhaps) from DMG Mori line up is smaller frame machines with 5 axis capability in the sub $200K range. (it's not clear whether 5 axis or sim-5 axis is practical or blocked on the NEW CMX line?) MillTap with a 5 axis unit is a different kettle of fish. If DMG -Mori i.e. the Mori end of things could make a very rigid smaller machine (30 taper) that also had a full sim 5 axis capability then that would pretty awesome... Given the "handle" DMG have on 5 axis applications.


    I'll take a tinfoil hat with my SMOOTH powered VCN, please! Sorry, I've just never owned ANY other brand that will beat a Mazak based on our manufacturing model; "TTFFP" (time to first finished part) is king around here. The flexibility of the control, for the components we typically produce, has been absolutely key to our success in good times and our survival during the lean times. I'm sure there are others that can achieve the same results with their preferred control; it just happens to be Mazatrol for us. Had one kid working here that couldn't even speak english and as an operator watching others do the setups and programming, figured it out on his own and is now my lead man in our milling department. To each his own....

    Mike

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  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykal1970 View Post
    I'll take a tinfoil hat with my SMOOTH powered VCN, please! Sorry, I've just never owned ANY other brand that will beat a Mazak based on our manufacturing model; "TTFFP" (time to first finished part) is king around here. The flexibility of the control, for the components we typically produce, has been absolutely key to our success in good times and our survival during the lean times. I'm sure there are others that can achieve the same results with their preferred control; it just happens to be Mazatrol for us. Had one kid working here that couldn't even speak english and as an operator watching others do the setups and programming, figured it out on his own and is now my lead man in our milling department. To each his own....

    Mike
    Yup... Mazak for us would definitely be the "Easy button" (without doubt) as its a perfect technological fit for our work flow and plays nice with our CAD/CAM software Like (Solidworks+ SolidCAM, especially for 5 axis)... And really looking to buy a second tier of machines that are B axis lathes / basic Integrex type machines... VERY much like the deeper features of the Smooth X control and definitely less intimidating for new employees than a Heidenhain control.

    From what I am able to gather at this point support is the biggest issue. Mazak has launched their "MAZAK OPTIMUM PLUS" ("Total support for MAZAK Customers)".


    Mazak Optimum Plus Total Support Program - YouTube

    But what does that actually mean?

    Given the number of rather significant "Horror" stories out there, and in spite of their "Optimum PLUS" propaganda they have NOT actually stated what it is that they have actually put in place to prevent the occasional "sh*t show"/ catastrophic failures in support from what could best be described as "Mind bending indifference" and inability to put things completely right?

    The question is, what is new about their "Support"? What have they put in place or allocated resources to, to make "Optimum Plus" a reality other than creating a new rather fanciful name (Transformers/Optimum Prime kind of thing) for their existing support? Just cutting together snippets of footage from old videos to make a new one all about Optimum Plus does not make it so?


    McLaren Honda (racing team) in UK seem to have had good luck with Mazak, typically Mazak is very well supported in smaller countries like the UK or Japan (obviously). The problem as I see it for MAZAK Kentucky/USA is that for all practical purposes the USA is a CONTINENT and the models that for example work well in UK and Japan (countries that are 1/40th the size of the USA) don't seem to work for a country composed of many states and regions that is 3000 miles wide and 1200 miles "long". So... What have they done to fix that problem? This is not something that Mazak Japan would have any experience of and the solution can only come from folks that have the power, autonomy and US knowledge to make it so.
    Last edited by cameraman; 12-08-2016 at 06:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Mike writes "and all the other distributors that sold/represented/supported their product for years only to slit their throats in order to sell direct .

    Yup that's pretty brutal (what happened). I think contraction in the industry has been really necessary for a lot of MTBs / organizations to implement "contraction" so they can survive long term. I think a significant fraction of these sales networks were over extended to begin with. For example in my region we have seen Doosan retract as well as Hardinge and other MTBs in the area have also lost representation (at least for while/foreseeable future).

    So you say "ALL"... "the other distributers"... Well that's not entirely true, For example in Denver, Triad machine tool was bought / acquired by DMG MORI and is being kept on as they are deemed as being "Talented sales and support hub".

    Typically with Triad (the sales staff and other support staff are excellent) but typically I would invariably reach a stale mate over closing price. Ironically now that they are owned (it seems ) 100% by DMG MORI they are able to offer deals and VERY favorable pricing that was simply NOT possible before.

    So at least in Denver the opposite seems to be true of the (centralized direct sales + better prices and remote support "value proposition"/efficiency "Idea"... (as you say Mike/@Mike) :-) . I hear that "Dr Mori" is running this all as a sort of "controlled (long term) experiment" to see whether local sales organizations add value. I think they do as I would not consider buying (at least in Denver) without some sort of local presence. Denver economically is really booming / number 1.

    They other thing that's interesting at least for machines made in Germany like at Pfronten... I have noticed some really fabulous deals (for example on a DMU 65 monoblock, very well equipped) that are almost impossible to refuse. Part of that is that segment of the 5 axis market is becoming very competitive; and also a very well equipped and optioned standard factory model is more cost effective/efficent. AND I think also (big picture) Germany's economy is slowing third quarter whereas US is potentially on the rise/ stable... So in general it makes sense to deploy German hardware on US soil at a good price to keep the German factories doing well and to retain their skilled employees. That's just my "observation" but seems like a good time to buy from DMG Mori (especially if you are in the USA)... ?

    @Mike does DMG MORI not have a substantial presence in NC? ;-)
    Interesting point. It seems on some DMG machines, the pricing is getting better as is the quality. Yet on other machines, pricing is going up from my last quotes due to the Yen exchange rate. Either way, it seems Triad is less likely to hard sell me on a machine now that DMG owns the shop. In fact, my dealer used to visit every month even though I carefully told him I'm not ready to buy. But now he visits once every three months and is more respectful of my timeline to purchase.

    I personally think DMG is moving in the right direction and plan to tour the Davis plant later this year.

  8. #87
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    Default DMG Mori DuraVertical Gets Owned by Hyundai's NEW KF5600, Just Sayin

    Quote Originally Posted by URGuys View Post
    My shop is looking into another VMC. And what I was told by the DMG Mori salesman is that the new redesigned DMG Mori ecoMills are the new Mori DuraVerticals. Apparently the companies have been working on this combined machine since the merger.

    I know there are a few fans of the DuraVerts on this forum. And I know there are a few posts about the (less then stellar) ecoMills. So I thought that I give this info out to you guys.

    We currently have a 1035 ecoMill. And its not that impressive. But I will say that the new machines are a bigger, heavier machine... even the new 600V outweighs our 1035. There's not too much info on the website, so I don't know what else has been upgraded.

    But we'll see if DMG screws this one up.
    See for yourself https://www.hillaryinc.com/index_htm...dai-kf5600.pdf


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