New facemill (steel/stainless)

tcncj · Feb 16, 2020

Hi

I'm in for a new facemill since I don't have a decent one.

Material: stainless and steel
Size: 50mm

The options I'm looking at are the WNT/Ceratizit 274 system. Which you let you install 4 or 8 cutting edge inserts. Available for Steel, stainless,Cast iron, HRSA, Alu.The WNT rep advised me this system.

There is also a 271 system. Which has a wiper: YouTube

The other option is the Seco double Octomill (with 16 cutting edges!)
Different inserts for different materials.

Price: the Seco one is a little bit more expansive (40,- Euro). Inserts are the same price.

Anyone experience with these face mills? My personal choice would be the one from WNT. Because I buy all my tooling from them. But the Seco one got 8 more cutting edges! The WNT facemill is a positive insert. The seco one seems negative?

Material removal rate isn't that important. But the surface finish is!

gregormarwick · Feb 16, 2020

If surface finish is your primary concern then you should stick to square inserts. They have significantly better insert location repeatability than any of the 8+ sided systems, which means more uniform cutting edge height, which means better surface finish.

winger · Feb 16, 2020

The octomills have less depth of cut if it matters to you. I didn't know about the insert repeatability , I guess I should check ours.

Dave

Rick Finsta · Feb 16, 2020

Seco Turbo Mills with wiper inserts. Start with one wiper and move up as necessary to get the finish you need.

tcncj · Feb 16, 2020

gregormarwick said:
If surface finish is your primary concern then you should stick to square inserts. They have significantly better insert location repeatability than any of the 8+ sided systems, which means more uniform cutting edge height, which means better surface finish.

The WNT 274 system can also handle square inserts. Which should give according to the rep a better surface finish.
But matches your story

gregormarwick · Feb 16, 2020

tcncj said:
The WNT 274 system can also handle square inserts. Which should give according to the rep a better surface finish.
But matches your story

The ones designed to hold different shapes of inserts are probably the worst of all...

The locating surfaces in the pocket get smaller as the number of edges goes up, and when you design it to handle different shapes they get even smaller still.

Double sided square inserts are the all round best IMO, but they are not all created equal. Sandvik 345 has it down, positive, helical cutting edge, with completely flat sides. They use a pretty elaborate shim to locate on the complex face geometry, but the sides of the insert are completely flat and square = excellent pocket repeatability and security.

The WNT 271 system you linked (which would be my choice out of the two you've mentioned) goes down the route of simpler face geometry, with faceted edges, which is much weaker than Sandvik's approach.

dodgin · Feb 17, 2020

tcncj said:
Hi

I'm in for a new facemill since I don't have a decent one.

Material: stainless and steel
Size: 50mm

The options I'm looking at are the WNT/Ceratizit 274 system. Which you let you install 4 or 8 cutting edge inserts. Available for Steel, stainless,Cast iron, HRSA, Alu.The WNT rep advised me this system.

There is also a 271 system. Which has a wiper: YouTube

The other option is the Seco double Octomill (with 16 cutting edges!)
Different inserts for different materials.

Price: the Seco one is a little bit more expansive (40,- Euro). Inserts are the same price.

Anyone experience with these face mills? My personal choice would be the one from WNT. Because I buy all my tooling from them. But the Seco one got 8 more cutting edges! The WNT facemill is a positive insert. The seco one seems negative?

Material removal rate isn't that important. But the surface finish is!

I've run both of these tools in cast steel at over 300+ BHN and I'd bet the farm the double octo will give you the best performance. The beauty of that offering from SECO is that they have a huge variety of edge preps. From no preps all the way to hugely prepped positive inserts. And at 16 edges per insert, super cheap cost per edge.

Can't comment on surface finish besides I'd think SECO would have a configuration to get you where you need to be. Otherwise, possibility to throw in a finisher?

Dupa3872 · Feb 17, 2020

Call your Sandvik Rep.

I have a 3 inch RA590-076R25S-11M I use on Aluminum and I'll never use anything else. I also have a 2 inch RA390-051R19-11M for steel and it's also the best I've ever used.

Good Luck

Make Chips Boys !

Ron

Nerdlinger · Feb 17, 2020

I recently got an Ingersoll GoldMax4 and love it for surface finish. There are two inserts available for it.....one with something like .009” max depth and one with .040” max depth. I am just taking a skim cut to make it shiny and it’s amazing. I am happy with the life but cannot say how it compares to others because I haven’t tried very many other wiper-style face mills.

Good luck!

BT Fabrication · Feb 25, 2020

I have a sowa 16-90 i believe it is. takes the usual ADKT inserts. 2" and 5 inserts for the holder.

Mtndew · Feb 25, 2020

tcncj said:
Anyone experience with these face mills? My personal choice would be the one from WNT. Because I buy all my tooling from them.

Have them come in for a demo of the tool.
What kind of surface finish are you looking to achieve?

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