New Haas Desktop CNC Mill, surely some mistake? - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 46
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    25
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lionelt View Post
    If it is aimed at schools the lessons will not be long enough to setup and run a larger machine.

    Grand daughter came home with some keyrings that she cnc’d at school, she was over the moon.

    Until then they had made items from sheet plastic that was cut by hand and heat bent into shape, following year they moved up a level and started to use the newer machines.

    This was a few years ago and she is 16 now, so it must have been 12 or 13 year olds?

    I seem to remember schools In the UK were using Denford and Emco cnc machines.
    It does seem like schools have finally realised there are careers in manufacturing again, back when I was in the final year of high school (2005) I remember all the manual lathes being removed and not replaced, none of them had been used for literally years and at the time I had no idea what you could even really do with them as the teachers never mentioned them.

    Some 10 - 12 years later a young lad started as an apprentice at a shop I subcontracted some work too and he had been at the same high school, turns out they'd recently purchased a number of new manual lathes and milling machines, more importantly the students had been allowed to actually use them! Quite heart warming actually.

    I've had a couple of friends who have done mechanical engineering degrees too, both got to use manual machines a bit, one said the CNC mill at the uni he was at sat unused all the time and the other had to design a part to be CNC milled but was told the stock size, fixturing method, what tools would be in the ATC and then someone (actually a service engineer who used to fit out VMCs that I happen to have met a few times) would actually come in to verify the programs and run the mill, the students didn't even get to press cycle start

    Boxford have always been a staple of education focused machines too along with Denford, funny you should mention Emco as I was offered an 'ex-college' Emco VMC, I think it was the PC based control with the Fanuc and Siemens overlays, quite a nice looking machine and I was told it next to no hours on the power on counter (sub 100 I think, over 15 years old), had only just broken into two figure cutting time and the coolant tank had never been filled.

    I've seen similar with a lot of other machines, I missed out on a cheap Leadwell LTC10 which was ex college/uni and had basically had no power on time, generally ex-college seems to be code for barely used, I'm always on the look out for them.

    It sounds like the US is a bit more on the ball when it comes to practical training in an education setting and the UK is improving but perhaps behind.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    400
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    88
    Likes (Received)
    48

    Default

    I wonder if simultaneous 3 axis moves will be possible, allowing for 3D milling? I hope so! I think it could be an interesting option for schools and small startups when used in combination with 3d printing for making prototypes and small parts. Not everything can be 3D printed ... yet. A lot will depend on price but its coming from Haas will mean that parts and service are readily available as well as a good resale value.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    641
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    253
    Likes (Received)
    94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Someone posted about that machine a few months ago, and I think the reaction was the same as yours - it's a mistake.

    Too little functionality for the price, even if just a training tool.
    What's the price? I can't find it.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    60
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post

    My college had a lab full of small Intellitek benchtop CNC mills and lathes for teaching G-code on.
    So did mine. But the Intellitek’s were epoxy granite machines with linear rails and ball screws. Some even had toolchangers and servos. I got one for free when a controller blew, retrofitted it it with a new servo system and could cut aluminum at 200+IPM.

    This haas machine is a $100 cnc router frame. While I agree students don’t need to be getting massive material removal, they do need to learn HSM, tool offset libraries, and other concepts to be competitive.

    Haas would have been much better pairing their control with something like a baby tormach machine.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,839
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1830
    Likes (Received)
    5512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Volitan View Post
    What's the price? I can't find it.
    I read somewhere (but can't quote a reference ATM) $9K.

    Edit - from the comments in the Youtube link:

    "I've heard from a Haas salesman that it would be around €9000. Not cheap for what you get..."

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,913
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    766
    Likes (Received)
    2268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I read somewhere (but can't quote a reference ATM) $9K.
    Haas already sells the EDU Mill - a stripped down, 4k RPM, TP series machine without a tool changer for $20k to the same target audience. 10x the machine at only 2x the price seems like a no brainer.

    I was thinking that perhaps this is a platform for teaching folks how to hand G-code stuff, because this machine is basically crash proof. Then I realized the same results could be had in any mill by locking down the work holding/tools and throwing some travel limit parameters onboard.

    So I guess I'm just failing to see the Haas vision on this thing; while this clearly wasn't an R&D project they are betting the company on, I am sure they have something telling them this was a good idea. I'm very curious as to what that is...

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    4,066
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1612
    Likes (Received)
    1890

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Haas already sells the EDU Mill - a stripped down, 4k RPM, TP series machine without a tool changer for $20k to the same target audience. 10x the machine at only 2x the price seems like a no brainer.

    I was thinking that perhaps this is a platform for teaching folks how to hand G-code stuff, because this machine is basically crash proof. Then I realized the same results could be had in any mill by locking down the work holding/tools and throwing some travel limit parameters onboard.

    So I guess I'm just failing to see the Haas vision on this thing; while this clearly wasn't an R&D project they are betting the company on, I am sure they have something telling them this was a good idea. I'm very curious as to what that is...
    I'm sure the desktop size and 110v power are pretty nice attractions for a school. Wheel it into the class, plug it in and go. Art class wants/needs to use it, wheel it into their class and go, etc.

  8. Likes Jashley73, empwoer liked this post
  9. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Staten Island NewYork USA
    Posts
    3,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1109
    Likes (Received)
    1817

    Default

    Personally I think its a great idea.

    I put someone on as a "summer intern" this past year that took a course at his college that had a Haas Mini Mill.

    It was a pleasure to see a young man be able to work his way around the control, know how to jog table, get spindle on to do basic setups and make offsets. He was somewhat familiar with G-Code...at least well enough to make some basic moves while knowing how to avoid bumps and bruises.

    Speeds and feeds, DOC he kinda had an idea...but knew enough to know he didn't really know.

    Point is after a few week class this young man knew his way around the Haas Control made some chips and learned enough to get him excited about learning more.

    Think about that...a real world CNC control, not some fannie flammer PC based hobby toy.

    Not too many schools are going to spend 50k on a Mini-mill,plus the compressor, and electric but if they could buy 5 tabletop mills that get plugged in to build an appetite...

    Plus learning on a Haas control-
    and not on a simulator...something about seeing the physical moves that puts it all into perspective, ties it all together...at least for me it did.
    When I bought my first, I watched the moves on the screen...but it wasn't till I put the pencil in the spindle and marked up the plastic that I really got it and the rest just kinda followed along in step.

    So learn on a Haas-

    They are Hugely popular
    Learn one Haas control you pretty much know them all

    If you learn the Haas Control, its not a far leap to others.


    Another up side to a small little table top thing is the chances of getting hurt decrease from say a VF-1 where CAT 40 tooling can get large, lots of mass moving around with some substantial power behind it.

  10. Likes Jashley73, empwoer liked this post
  11. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    580
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    30

    Default

    I think its a great stepping stone for a beginning student. They learn the control and get to see the actual machine movements without crashing an expensive VMC.
    However, I don't see it being used much for hobbyists as mentioned in the video. Most hobbyists need to machine more than plastic. I'm betting the price is probably out of the hobbyist range as well.


    btm

  12. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    St, Paul MN
    Posts
    593
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    91
    Likes (Received)
    96

    Default

    These are a great idea, learn G code and the control. Making functional and useful stuff from plastic is a great way to keep kids focused .
    It’s small, cheap, and will be reliable like all the haas I’ve used. Plus there online education vids are amazing .

  13. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    945
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    703
    Likes (Received)
    340

    Default

    The dark secret of CNC machines in academic settings: They sit unused because senior instructional staff don't understand them and are frightened!

    I'm quite pleased about this thing. Having a real control attached to a machine that can do something would be a great starting point though in a dream manufacturing program you'd want to back it up with the TM EDU or VF-2 once they get the hang of things. As has been said already in this thread, getting students to the point they can establish a coordinate system on some stock and run a CAM created program to run profiles and pockets is the key first step to operating a CNC safely. After that they can learn HSM and such but most of that learning is on the CAM package. And I agree the key here really is the price point, so we'll have to see what it actually is.

    I've been asked for advice on a few recent academic CNC purchases and people seem to have ballpark $25K, for a machine to be operated by enthusiastic but inexperienced engineers in a building that wasn't designed to be a shop. In these cases the Tormach is very attractive, both for size but also floor load, single phase and ability to get through single doors. Haas has the CM-1 but it's a serious small machine, more like a Kern than a Tormach. We a current project where a colleague of mine who is an engineering program director is putting a new shop in, and has proper institutional $$ for power feed, but choice of Tormach was being driven by the door issue. We had a site visit and me, another engineer and a machinist all independently said, "oh dear Lord, put a double door in your reno budget, you will be forever glad you did!" We'll see what happens with that one but in general I'd say if Haas had something compact and lowish power but with the real Haas control, it would be compelling for both labs and manufacturing programs.

  14. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    213
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    I suppose the value is learning a real control and they are infinitely easier to use than Mach or Linux. I didn't see a tool changer or a probe to set work offsets in the video though. At least they could get there hands on the machine even if you can't really make anything.

    My son went to college where they had a few HAAS machines. They learned manual first on mills and lathes, but wouldn't let them touch the VMC's. They sat behind locked cages doing nothing most of the time. Students had to give their files to the machinist to run basic parts. He felt completely ripped off for what he paid for college.

    Fast forward to his first real job. The company had a tiny sherline CNC 3 axis mill sitting in a corner, never been used because no one could figure out how to make the CNC function work with a computer. He got it all up and running making small delrin parts. He said the little mill was a pos, but you could male small parts albeit inaccurate with ugly surface finish. He said the best part of it was you could crash the shit out of it learning cnc, and it didn't have enough power to hurt itself.he said it couldn't even break a 1/4" end mill. I think the whole system was 3k.

  15. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyStark View Post
    So did mine. But the Intellitek’s were epoxy granite machines with linear rails and ball screws. Some even had toolchangers and servos. I got one for free when a controller blew, retrofitted it it with a new servo system and could cut aluminum at 200+IPM.

    This haas machine is a $100 cnc router frame. While I agree students don’t need to be getting massive material removal, they do need to learn HSM, tool offset libraries, and other concepts to be competitive.

    Haas would have been much better pairing their control with something like a baby tormach machine.
    Not knowing the price that was my thought. The Tormach uses linuxcnc.I don't like the Axis interface. A machine control should look like it is on a machine ... not a VCR. However, the underlying control is pretty good. The G code looks pretty much like a Haas.
    Gmoccapy looks much more like a decent control. Google is your friend. I was not aware of the Intellitek.As an exercise I guess I should go look have a look.

  16. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    3,450
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    297
    Likes (Received)
    2241

    Default

    if it can actually handle aluminum,I don't know why it wouldn't, I could see it being useful

    if it really only does plastic, most people would prefer a 3D printer

    having something that takes the same code as a machine on the line could have some upside in engineering, or be useful in education where the next step is running your part on an actual Haas

  17. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,559
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    553
    Likes (Received)
    930

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Almost as cheesy as the video guy's mustache. Almost.

    But, it'd be fun to tinker with I think.
    What, the mustache?

  18. Likes Booze Daily, mountie liked this post
  19. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    105
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    27

    Default

    The Haas mill is a Chinese generic 4030 router you can buy on Ebay with the Haas control and enclosure added. Just seems like such a big company like Haas could have done better with all their resources available.

  20. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    400
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    88
    Likes (Received)
    48

    Default

    Have you examined one of the Haas machines in person? It will be interesting to hear what Haas says to your comments. If they did actually just buy any old China router and are now selling it as a "Haas" that will quite a step away from their other machines and their customer base.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyman View Post
    The Haas mill is a Chinese generic 4030 router you can buy on Ebay with the Haas control and enclosure added. Just seems like such a big company like Haas could have done better with all their resources available.

  21. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,839
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1830
    Likes (Received)
    5512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wilkins View Post
    Have you examined one of the Haas machines in person? It will be interesting to hear what Haas says to your comments. If they did actually just buy any old China router and are now selling it as a "Haas" that will quite a step away from their other machines and their customer base.
    In some ways it doesn't matter. Even if it's all Haas designed and built, the actual capacity seems oddly minimal when you consider concept and cost. Yes, I get that it could be attractive to schools, but the same basic package, with just ~$1k more in proper hardware could actually be useful and cut at least Al, not just plastics and such. No tool changer needed (although it would be nice), just materials and beef enough to stiffen the design, and provide a little more Z.

  22. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    400
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    88
    Likes (Received)
    48

    Default

    I think it will matter a lot! If Haas is now just buying OEM China tools and slapping a Haas label on them, this will be a major departure for Haas and I think, a major mistake. I reserve judgement until there is definite evidence or Haas comes out and makes a statement.

    Machine capabilities and performance are totally separate issues.

  23. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    27
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    It looks like they are going after a specific market since the control comes with programs pre-installed to finish machine 80% firearm receivers. Not a bad idea to try and get a piece of a $52 billion dollar industry but unfortunately the AR15 market is already saturated so I guess the clients will be home gunsmiths or dreamers that think they can still introduce a new needle to the haystack...


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •