New Hire Training - Mill Offsets
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  1. #1
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    Default New Hire Training - Mill Offsets

    I've got two new guys that are both struggling with mill tool and work offsets. Youtube has a seemingly endless supply of videos about how to SET offsets, but I need help teaching these guys how to ADJUST offsets. I am shit at teaching, and I've showed them how I do it and the thought process behind it multiple times, and one still struggles with thinking he can change a pocket location by changing the tool's diameter that makes the pocket.

    What I'm hoping to find is a training video, website or manual that teaches how to adjust mill tool and work offsets with visual aids. What to change (and which direction to go) if a feature is not located correctly, what to change (and which direction to go) if a pocket is too small, etc.

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    Make a quick cheat sheet. Take a picture of one of your setups on the table. Label part features (Boss A, Pocket B, etc)...

    Give them 4 arrows that correspond to X/Y +/-

    Give an example (Boss A is .005" off location in the X+ direction, Offset Tool 12 -.005" in the X direction) for each type of feature. Let them keep it at the machine. They'll get it eventually. I hope.

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    you dont need video or buy anything somebody trying to sell
    .
    its called use cell phone camera and take pictures of cnc screen. add to Microsoft Powerpoint pictures with some arrows and text box explaining things and print them out
    .
    then the one or 2 pages can be used as a reference and the operator can write with a pencil any addition explanation they want. its called a Work Instruction or Procedure. most shops have hundreds or thousands of them
    .
    most senior machinist have written many procedures or work instructions. also CAGS or corrective action guidelines, basically a page or 2 if machine not running the procedure or steps to do to get it running again, 99% of time machine is running before you get to end of steps to try to get machine running again.
    .
    i always write procedures or work instructions both for myself and others. that way years later you can do stuff with only a minute or 2 or reading the reference procedure. literally can wastes many hours looking it up in the manuals that can be 1000 to 10,000 pages

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    My current guy is really eager to learn. Especially when he first came on board.
    He has gleaned a ton of practical CNC knowledge from simply reading the haas manuals hanging on the back of the controls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    My current guy is really eager to learn. Especially when he first came on board.
    He has gleaned a ton of practical CNC knowledge from simply reading the haas manuals hanging on the back of the controls.
    Haas does a really good job of training and documentation. Were you to give him any of the manuals that came with our Hyundais he'd have a hard time telling you which button was go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    I've got two new guys that are both struggling with mill tool and work offsets. Youtube has a seemingly endless supply of videos about how to SET offsets, but I need help teaching these guys how to ADJUST offsets. I am shit at teaching, and I've showed them how I do it and the thought process behind it multiple times, and one still struggles with thinking he can change a pocket location by changing the tool's diameter that makes the pocket.

    What I'm hoping to find is a training video, website or manual that teaches how to adjust mill tool and work offsets with visual aids. What to change (and which direction to go) if a feature is not located correctly, what to change (and which direction to go) if a pocket is too small, etc.
    I find that ridiculous exaggeration helps. IE; find a set up piece and demonstrate, not Thousandths, but Feet or whole Inches. If it needs to move the location 1" it seems easier to interpret than .001". Especially teaching Angularity, this seems to make waaay more sense.

    R

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    Start with how the cartesian coordinate system works. It sounds basic but people tend to yes you to death and are doomed if they don't understand the basics. To stop all the yessing you can try using reflective conversations where rather than them just saying yes they understand you make them explain it back to you. All this crap is like math were it builds on itself and you can't just skip to the next thing if you don't understand.

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    If they can't grasp that simple parameter then they probably don't belong being machinists...harsh but true, especially knowing how hard it is to get help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    If they can't grasp that simple parameter then they probably don't belong being machinists...harsh but true, especially knowing how hard it is to get help.
    I think they are "operators" not machinist??? I have notes written on my machines as some want positive values and others want negative for offsets. Setting a G54 (55, 56, …..) on my Mitsu Meldas (wants negative) is the opposite of the work shift on my Fanuc OT (wants positive). Sometimes I have to stop and hit myself on the head....it can get confusing at times especially if I haven't run that particular machine in a few days. I deff wouldn't want someone changing offsets that didn't understand how they work and isn't methodical enough to not just "hit cycle start and see what happens".

    But than again I think I Fanuc 3T is a perfectly acceptable control on a lathe so what do I know

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    I think they are "operators" not machinist??? I have notes written on my machines as some want positive values and others want negative for offsets. Setting a G54 (55, 56, …..) on my Mitsu Meldas (wants negative) is the opposite of the work shift on my Fanuc OT (wants positive). Sometimes I have to stop and hit myself on the head....it can get confusing at times especially if I haven't run that particular machine in a few days. I deff wouldn't want someone changing offsets that didn't understand how they work and isn't methodical enough to not just "hit cycle start and see what happens".

    But than again I think I Fanuc 3T is a perfectly acceptable control on a lathe so what do I know
    Oooo I've tangled with a meldas magic...nothing like I've ever dealt with lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    I think they are "operators" not machinist??? I have notes written on my machines as some want positive values and others want negative for offsets. Setting a G54 (55, 56, …..) on my Mitsu Meldas (wants negative) is the opposite of the work shift on my Fanuc OT (wants positive). Sometimes I have to stop and hit myself on the head....it can get confusing at times especially if I haven't run that particular machine in a few days. I deff wouldn't want someone changing offsets that didn't understand how they work and isn't methodical enough to not just "hit cycle start and see what happens".

    But than again I think I Fanuc 3T is a perfectly acceptable control on a lathe so what do I know

    Try going between Swiss machines where Z- is away from the part to... Pretty much any other machine where Z- is a dive into the part/table...

    Whenever I switch machines, I stop and think about my offsets 3 or 4 times before I type them in

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    whoops. my bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    Start with how the cartesian coordinate system works. It sounds basic but people tend to yes you to death and are doomed if they don't understand the basics.
    I agree. Its rather amazing how many people don't have a grasp of basic xyz coordinates,
    and which way is what.

    quick test. Take them to the machine and have them tell you which way is
    X positive.. If they tell you X+ is the table moving to the left, then
    you have a basic fundamental problem that needs to be addressed before anything
    else can be understood.

    I wish I had a $1 for every time I've had to say "Be The Tool"..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    I agree. Its rather amazing how many people don't have a grasp of basic xyz coordinates,
    and which way is what.

    quick test. Take them to the machine and have them tell you which way is
    X positive.. If they tell you X+ is the table moving to the left, then
    you have a basic fundamental problem that needs to be addressed before anything
    else can be understood.

    I wish I had a $1 for every time I've had to say "Be The Tool"..

    But a move in the X+ direction is the table moving left....spindle going right....Right?.....right. This can get very confusing very quickly and requires thought and attention.....a quality that seems to be rather lacking today.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Try going between Swiss machines where Z- is away from the part to... Pretty much any other machine where Z- is a dive into the part/table...

    Whenever I switch machines, I stop and think about my offsets 3 or 4 times before I type them in
    That is the attitude that I would want to see! We all have to stop and think sometimes, its the people that don't that tend to have the most problems and crashes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    Start with how the cartesian coordinate system works. It sounds basic but people tend to yes you to death and are doomed if they don't understand the basics. To stop all the yessing you can try using reflective conversations where rather than them just saying yes they understand you make them explain it back to you. All this crap is like math were it builds on itself and you can't just skip to the next thing if you don't understand.
    An easy way to show them XYZ is the right hand method.
    Have him take their right hand, palm up, thumb pointing to the right, index finger pointing away and the middle finger pointing up. That's X+,Y+,and Z+

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    I agree. Its rather amazing how many people don't have a grasp of basic xyz coordinates,
    and which way is what.

    quick test. Take them to the machine and have them tell you which way is
    X positive.. If they tell you X+ is the table moving to the left, then
    you have a basic fundamental problem that needs to be addressed before anything
    else can be understood.

    I wish I had a $1 for every time I've had to say "Be The Tool"..
    I tell them to flip me off with their right hand, then look at where their Thumb, Index finger, and Bird finger are pointing....

    I tell them to "be the Tool"....but I think most of them already are Tools, some of them start spinning around in circles, others whack their head on the bench whilst asking "like this?" with some embarrassing enthusiasm.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    I tell them to "be the Tool"....but I think most of them already are Tools, some of them start spinning around in circles, others whack their head on the bench whilst asking "like this?" with some embarrassing enthusiasm.

    R
    That is the best post I've read in a long time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    I agree. Its rather amazing how many people don't have a grasp of basic xyz coordinates,
    and which way is what.

    quick test. Take them to the machine and have them tell you which way is
    X positive.. If they tell you X+ is the table moving to the left, then
    you have a basic fundamental problem that needs to be addressed before anything
    else can be understood.

    I wish I had a $1 for every time I've had to say "Be The Tool"..
    Heidenhain on my work Bridgeport has the coordinate system flipped...+ Is - and - is +...fortunately I only got bit by that once lol.

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    I am working with someone on this at one of my customer's sites. 2nd shift supervisor that never touched a CNC until a few weeks ago. He catches on quickly, but I have made sure to go over the basics like Cartesian coordinates, the right hand rule, etc.

    The biggest mind-%$#& for me was the Speedio pallet machines - you design and program your fixture backwards from how it is machined, and then you set it up from the side with X/Y swapped and backwards LOL.

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