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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    The biggest mind-%$#& for me was the Speedio pallet machines - you design and program your fixture backwards from how it is machined, and then you set it up from the side with X/Y swapped and backwards LOL.
    No shit! Bounce back and forth from a haas to an R650 daily (so does the OP of this thread). Mind-%$#& is pretty accurate. (you forgot to mention the stationary table)

    Bob is correct "be the tool". But, 30 years in, I still "be the part" in my head sometimes in a std. VMC when tweaking coordinates, sometimes. Get the same results.
    Last edited by wheelieking71; 12-13-2019 at 11:16 AM.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    The biggest mind-%$#& for me was the Speedio pallet machines - you design and program your fixture backwards from how it is machined, and then you set it up from the side with X/Y swapped and backwards LOL.
    That will get ya for sure. It's so easy to do it the wrong way.

  4. #23
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    Thanks for all the replies fellas. Unfortunately it seems that I'm on my own for visuals. I suck at teaching because I just "see" this stuff in my head and have a hard time explaining it, and I suck even worse at being artistic. I may just kick them in the balls when they get it wrong. That might work eventually...

    These two guys have only been here about a week, so more time with immersion learning is probably all that's needed.

    And yes, the Brother pallet machines are a mind fuck for a little bit. I nearly fell in my R650 the first time I jogged X+. My brain told my body that the spindle should be stationary (like the Haas) and my head ended up following the spindle in to the machine a couple inches. That was discombobulating for sure. What I'm teaching for the Brother is to make his X & Y adjustments while he's in the loading station just like any VMC, and then write down the opposite direction. Just swap it automatically without thinking, and it works like a charm.

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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    I nearly fell in my R650 the first time I jogged X+.
    Hahahahahahahahaha! It’s like when you’re in a parking lot about to turn your car off and the car next to you starts backing out so you think you’re actually rolling forward, etc.
    Last edited by Nerdlinger; 12-16-2019 at 10:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    Haas does a really good job of training and documentation. Were you to give him any of the manuals that came with our Hyundais he'd have a hard time telling you which button was go.
    Haas does not get enough credit for their documentation, videos, and overall user training materials. They just absolutely kill everyone else in the industry at this stuff.

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Thanks for all the replies fellas. Unfortunately it seems that I'm on my own for visuals. I suck at teaching because I just "see" this stuff in my head and have a hard time explaining it, and I suck even worse at being artistic. I may just kick them in the balls when they get it wrong. That might work eventually...

    These two guys have only been here about a week, so more time with immersion learning is probably all that's needed.
    Teaching can be an art, you really need to understand what appeals to them. One may be able to pick up a manual, read it and be capable. The other may need visuals, show him/her once and they have it locked down.

    You mention that you visualize in you head. This is a big issue with teaching them. Slow down and realize they don't have the experience or knowledge so it is not intuitive. Say "X" and they are new, so "X" is not straight forward. Those that have been doing this for a while get frustrated with this. But remember, everyone started from Zero- We tend to forget that.

    Do step by step instruction. Talk the task, move "X", demonstrate the task, Move "X", and then have them talk and demonstrate moving "X". Move to the next task. Adjust the speed and feed of your instruction based on how quickly or slowly they pick it up.

    You have a ton of information, but remember- They cannot read your mind or understand your train of thought. Plus, you probably tend to look ahead while you are teaching/doing something, this will cause issues because you will skip very important details that they need. Be as detailed as possible. Move "X", but talk about the % of feed and why, the positive and negative direction and why, put something in the spindle and a block of wood on the table and talk every piece. Time consuming, yes but it will save time later and prevent an expensive repair. Spend the time now.

    Remember, they don't have any knowledge on simple things such as turning on the machine. So keep it very simple and use the step by step approach and have them demonstrate.

    To prevent the "yes" response, have them demonstrate. If they go the wrong direction in a particular axis, show them how to quickly adjust. It's not the end of the world, just let them know once they realize they went in the wrong direction, stop and go back in the correct direction.

    You have a lot on your plate, so feeding them through a fire hose tends to take place. Again, slow down. Take breaks and let them practice the simple task. Let them work together, but provide left and right limits so they don't destroy the machine. Example, practice moving all three axis and help each other. One will be faster than the other. Let the fast one help the slow one, it will develop the faster skill set quicker. You learn more by teaching.

    Give them task to accomplish and let them practice. Each time they demonstrate a new task, have them show you old task. Combine task as you go along. Be organized and don't go off the cuff, it is confusing to someone that has never seen a CNC in their life.

    Demonstrate and let them practice. At the end of the day, have them demonstrate everything you taught that day. In the morning, have them demonstrate the previous day task then move on.

    You will realize that a relationship will develop between you and the employee. One, you are the boss. But most importantly, they will realize that they can come to you with questions and issues vs hiding an expensive mistake. You hired them for a reason, they may not work out in the end. But they will have an appreciation.

    Edit: Full disclosure, I am self teaching myself by watching the horrible world of youtube and reading the HAAS manual and jumping on here to read old post. Additionally, I enrolled in the HAAS certification program. Some of the stuff is extremely basic simple, but it has helped me a lot. I wish I had someone like you that would take the time and interest in teaching.

    Refine your teaching just like you refined your machining/cnc skills.

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    I have always been able to digest a lot of information, only need to be shown once, read manuals and retain what was in them, etc. It took me a while of getting frustrated with new operators to realize that this was not typical. I now try to start from the beginning pretended they know nothing so that I don't miss covering anything and have the patience to show them again, and again.... and again. We have also started sending guys that show promise to the local community college which is a Haas tech center for a few operations classes. Sometimes you get burned by guys not sticking around long after that but at least they weren't a wrecking ball while they were with us.

    "The only thing worse than training your employees and having them leave is not training them and having them stay." - Henry Ford

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    Matt don't forget to pack their lunch too. And tell them how smart they are, so they don't get hurt feelings. Hurt feelings hurts the shop too. And even if they are pathetic and couldn't make money if they had a money printer, to give them a best-efforts trophy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Matt don't forget to pack their lunch too. And tell them how smart they are, so they don't get hurt feelings. Hurt feelings hurts the shop too. And even if they are pathetic and couldn't make money if they had a money printer, to give them a best-efforts trophy.
    Believe it or not, these two are actually worth putting time in to. Both have real drive to do a good job, but need a lot of help getting there. One is starting from scratch, and one was taught poorly. But both are a hell of a lot better than any of the other 13 jackasses I've hired / fired since returning after our fire. AJ mentioned wrecking balls, and boy were a couple of them just that.

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    Not to put this on you Matt, but part of me thinks that this is an opportunity to look at your process.

    I don't know how you set up jobs, offsets, workholding, etc. What I do know is that a lot of owner/operator shops struggle with the transition to hiring operators, and the primary reason is that the owner/operator has been working with a pile of hacks in their head for years. For them, it couldn't be easier because this is their pile of hacks, their neurons are aligned to implement those hacks automatically, and trying to get someone else to operate that pile of hacks is a real bitch.

    So what is the process like?

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