New Kenna Drills?

Ox · Jun 21, 2019

I have seen these ads for what - a year now?
I have heard no mention of them here, and every time I see the ad I hafta :scratchchin:

Are these rebranded Iscar's or what?

MAZ- Reader

Who's used them?

----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

dodgin · Jun 21, 2019

Ox said:
I have seen these ads for what - a year now?
I have heard no mention of them here, and every time I see the ad I hafta

Are these rebranded Iscar's or what?

MAZ- Reader

Who's used them?

----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

The "KenTIP" has been around for a while, I think. They came out with some upgraded geometry on those probably about a year or so ago, higher speeds and feeds and better tool life. We ran them in some mild steel against Iscars SumoCham line and they did outperform and outlast the Iscars without question. Nothing more than a test though on those.

We kind of had done a wholesale change on insertable drill bodies and wound up buying a ton of the Allied XT Pros. They ran right there with the Kennametals and the applications guy seemed to know what he was talking about whereas the Kennametal guy seemed to be throwing stuff at the wall. Not really pertinent to your post but I'm going stream of consciousness here.

Also as an aside, and maybe it goes without saying, but in the same diameter range the KenTIP still can't compete with the productivity and longevity of solid carbide drills. In my opinion anyways.

CAMasochism · Jun 21, 2019

We use Iscar Sumocham for the most part for smaller holes. However we have switched our smaller .875-1.25" ejector drills for Kennametal KSEM bodies with great results. I have a bit of experience with the Sandvik CoroDrill 870s and one I use regularly works good and lasts a long time. I've also used the Mitsubishi TAW type drills, but have had issue with the screw coming loose resulting in some bad holes.

thesidetalker · Jun 21, 2019

I've been trying some here and there. Mixed results.

IMO works okay in steels, although I haven't done a lot yet. Worked fine with the same speeds I run solid carbide.

In 304 SST, I've had poor results. The insert tips give out WAY fast unless you baby the feedrate. There's a recent thread on here about tip failure, can't remember the details. I think the poster was running steel in a lathe?

Instead of using their calculator I just ran them the same speed I run my guhring 5510 & 5511's. (per guhring recommended)

Turns out you can't and the tip is crushed in <25-50 holes, or the tip & body if your operator doesn't catch it quick enough

Kennametal's feed is about half. Then, it runs okay.

FWIW, I ran a job recently with ~3000 holes total, (6.8mm, 1.5xD, 304SS) with a "godrill" and the one drill ran the whole job. Ran that one at my old guhring speeds just fine

HDFanboy · Jun 21, 2019

Our kennametal rep just came to see us last week and told us we have 8 months left to replace all our ktip bodies and heads to that new fs style before the old style is phased out. So right now we are getting prices from iscar to see how they compare before we agree to get the ktip fs line of drills.

gregormarwick · Jun 22, 2019

From the pictures, those sure look "heavily inspired" by the Iscar/Tungaloy drills.

cnctoolcat · Jun 22, 2019

Made-in-USA Allied’s Gen3Sys drills have been around a while, have a large selection of grades and coatings, and have always performed well here at the Cathouse...

DouglasJRizzo · Jun 23, 2019

The KenTip drill works VERY well. I have a shop using them in a brand new Doosan DNM 6700 drilling 4340 and it just goes through like butter. They work very well, and last a long time. Great tool life.

dstryr · Jun 23, 2019

thesidetalker said:
FWIW, I ran a job recently with ~3000 holes total, (6.8mm, 1.5xD, 304SS) with a "godrill" and the one drill ran the whole job. Ran that one at my old guhring speeds just fine

I've started using the Go-Drills as my go to for about 6-9 months now. Cheaper than competition and with no margin we have successfully pecked them in harder materials when the flute was just a touch too short but didn't want to jump to the next size length.

thesidetalker · Jun 23, 2019

DouglasJRizzo said:
The KenTip drill works VERY well. I have a shop using them in a brand new Doosan DNM 6700 drilling 4340 and it just goes through like butter. They work very well, and last a long time. Great tool life.

Done any stainless yet with the HPL geometry? KenTIP™ FS Inserts • HPL KCMS15

mmurray70 · Jun 24, 2019

I tried them in steel and wouldn't recommend them. The tip is very weak and cant hold up to any heavy feedrates at all. Also the coolant holes exit about 3/4" back from the tip leaving the tip prone to rubbing/welding and the coolant is actually blasting the chips back towards the tip. Id much rather coolant exiting at the tip only which lubricates everything and pushes the chips in the right direction.

I replaced with a sandvik 870 and its night and day better. Longer life, cheaper per hole, more reliable, I ran them nearly double the feedrate, and quieter.

dodgin · Jun 24, 2019

HDFanboy said:
Our kennametal rep just came to see us last week and told us we have 8 months left to replace all our ktip bodies and heads to that new fs style before the old style is phased out. So right now we are getting prices from iscar to see how they compare before we agree to get the ktip fs line of drills.

That's funny.

If he doesn't swap out the bodies for free or super cheap I'm sure Iscar or some other manufacturer would be ecstatic to do that for you.

mmurray70 · Jun 24, 2019

Look at the insert from this angle and you dont have to wonder why the tip is crumbling. What were they thinking?? Its just way to weak to have such a thin section stuck off like that.

DMF_TomB · Jun 24, 2019

tip special can be so spot drill not needed even if drill relatively long length
.
many have different preferences. that is some have priority with
1) drilling faster feed rates
2) not needing to spot drill
3) less or no sudden tool failures. that is tool reliability often 100x more important than minor feed difference. for example trying to save 20 minutes per week but spending 200 minutes fixing the results of sudden tool failure
.
also changing tooling every 45 minutes some would prefer going 1/2 the feed rate and getting 200% to 400% longer tool life. that is many do not want to be spending $1000. a week extra on tooling trying to save a few hours of time
.
its like a facemill that leaves a mirror finish but inserts might not last even 10 minutes. sometimes you dont care about a mirror finish you just dont want to spend so much money on inserts. different priorities
.
big carbide drill costing over $300. each breaking with no warning the expense adds up quick. carbide tip drill just trying to lower tooling costs especially on larger sizes that can be over $400. for one solid carbide drill bit

Jashley73 · Jun 24, 2019

mmurray70 said:
Look at the insert from this angle and you dont have to wonder why the tip is crumbling. What were they thinking?? Its just way to weak to have such a thin section stuck off like that.

No experience with these tools, but I would *imagine* that such a narrow/sharp point would be useful in soft/gummy/stainless materials where you're concerned about built-up-edge. I'm *assuming* by your post that you're confused as to why they would put such a thin point on a steel drill tip, so therefore I'm assuiming this is a tip intended for steel? If so, then I would concur with your confusion...

Roboman01 · Jun 24, 2019

Jashley73 said:
No experience with these tools, but I would *imagine* that such a narrow/sharp point would be useful in soft/gummy/stainless materials where you're concerned about built-up-edge. I'm *assuming* by your post that you're confused as to why they would put such a thin point on a steel drill tip, so therefore I'm assuiming this is a tip intended for steel? If so, then I would concur with your confusion...

Guhring has a new line of replaceable tip drills that includes a series of inserts with tip profiles like that. They're intended for structural steel work. The pilot on the tip apparently helps in interrupted cuts (like when you might have to drill through both sides of an I-beam in one shot) where it could potentially wander otherwise from surfaces that aren't very flat. I used one without the pilot point because I was only going through .5" thick A36 4x4" angle stock and got about 5,000 holes per tip running at 325 SFM and .016/rev. Your rep can tell you how to use the pilot point tips correctly if you're having problems, but they're generally for very specific applications.

CarbideBob · Jun 24, 2019

Gosh the tip almost looks like a centerdrill and we all know these don't work.
The reason for such tip is to get a reasonable cutting geometry and chip formation on the chisel. Not so much for centering, eliminating spots, or drilling off axis.
It is moving or cutting very, very little metal in a cubic inch per rev world.
It is expensive and complicated to make which is why you don't see it on normal drills.
Bob

DMF_TomB · Jun 24, 2019

i have broken many a carbide drill not drilling in material but when it breaks through the other side of the material. often have to slow settings so it can take the vibration ? from breaking through other side especially if other side is uneven
.
did a study on one big part. 20 hours of rework per year from broken carbide drills. slowed feeds and speeds so even if each hole took 2 seconds longer by the end of the year it took 2 hours longer drilling but saved 20 hours of rework besides the savings in cost from less broken carbide drills. even a 1% sudden tool failure rate can be very expensive in time and labor by the end of the year.

DMF_TomB · Jun 24, 2019

some steel especially structural steel and castings can have slag or hard spots in them
.
you can drill 1000's of holes no problems and then bam hit a hard spot and break drill. and then trying to blame something like runout or other things when in reality it was cause you hit a piece of sand or glass like slag in the metal.
.
big carbide drills often no warning or squealing just bam its broken in a millisecond. and often drill cost over $300.

mmurray70 · Jun 25, 2019

Jashley73 said:
I would *imagine* that such a narrow/sharp point would be useful in soft/gummy/stainless materials where you're concerned about built-up-edge.

Maybe it would help in theory for some cases, but when the whole tip cracks off its not much help at all.

New Kenna Drills?

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Stainless

Plastic

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Attachments

Diamond

Titanium

Plastic

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Similar threads