New machines day, week, month, F'n whatever.

Scruffy887 · Apr 21, 2021

Ordered mid Feb, built to spec, shipped and landed at riggers address Friday April 9 and unloaded. Still there. Still there. Yup, still F'n there. THEY ARE STILL F'N THERE! Went for conjugal visit day of unloading and was told "not next week". Few days later "not week after".
Fingers crossed because another rigger is to pick up machines and set them into my place this coming Friday. This rigger was recommended by the first rigger. More to this soap opera Friday.

Scruffy887 · Apr 23, 2021

2 weeks after delivery so about 16 days outside. Only 1 sleet storm and 1 rain storm. Water did not flow out of electrical cab so I guess all is ok. They picked up from defaulted rigger and had them here before 10.

Lathe was a piece of cake and went right in. Mazk seems to think that a crapload more sheet metal on the mills is good. We had to "peel the can" to get it in.

Also had to strip the sheetmetal from rear of machine.

Mazak used to send these panels loose. Nope. PITA to remove. Mazak even routs wires along the back panels. Loads of parts to put back together. Maybe remember what goes where, maybe not.

Machines are in. Electrical wires into machines Monday afternoon. Air connections already there. Building closed up and maybe tomorrow I will get the OH door working again. Panels in place but ceiling track not there, springs need to be wound.

My guess on when these new machines will produce parts? Late May at earliest. Or well into June?

Milland · Apr 23, 2021

Ouch, what a pain in the butt. That's really bad practice (IMO) of the rigging company to leave the machines outside, especially in MA. Two weeks? Grrr...

Hope the wait will be worth it, let us know when they're pushing out parts.

Scruffy887 · Apr 24, 2021

Milland said:
Ouch, what a pain in the butt. That's really bad practice (IMO) of the rigging company to leave the machines outside, especially in MA. Two weeks? Grrr...

Hope the wait will be worth it, let us know when they're pushing out parts.

I called my insurance company the day they shipped. In this case Mazak is paying the transport company, (adding it on my invoice). So Mazak owns them until at my rigger. I got an insurance rider because these machines were added to my policy, and also added coverage for time at the rigger. My insurance would cover, seek $$ from riggers insurance.
And Mazak does a super job wrapping these machines. When transport trailer shows up the dunnage is placed on the trailers. Then a huge plastic thingy is placed onto the dunnage. Machine gets lowered onto this by crane. Plastic wrap is thick and has some type of felt like backing (keeps condensation at bay). Then a huge plastic bag is dropped from above and sealed to bottom bag type thing. The only holes in the wrap are the ones the tie down chains go through. Any corner has a foam block and delivery does not tarp them anymore. So we cut this stuff off and it took 5 of us about 45 minutes to clear the machines.
My last Mazak delivery was 2002. Craploads of thin foam and Mazak tape. That tape left most of its adhesive behind when stripped. They prob got some nasty calls, all tape so far has stripped clean.

cameraman · Apr 25, 2021

Awesome purchase and idea... :cool:

Vertical Travelling Column machine with fixed table.
esp. built to your specs (in Kentucky).

78" / 2000 mm version.

Any idea if a 40 taper version can be had for around or smidge under $200K ? (don't laugh too much ) or really $250K ++ ,

Are you going partition, 4th axis or 50 taper etc. ? Spindle rpm ...

we've been looking for a fixed table travelling column machine (or ram-style long bridge fixed table). *
, looking at your pics trying to figure if there are any panels left and right of the table that can be removed or "Bored" through (Optical alignment tasks).

Ta.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

* What I like about that concept is the table is (I believe) ??? 20" in Y so the ergonomics are really good to do tricky/ long setups without having to lean too far into a machine and easy access to the spindle. Other than being super helpful for long and heavy work pieces and fixtures.

Speedie · Apr 25, 2021

I dont know of any rigger in our area dumb enough to even a used machine sit outside in the rain. That is complete bullshit. You invested, most likely are making payments on something that might have been dead on arrival. What kind of arrangement is that.

cnctoolcat · Apr 25, 2021

These riggers don't seem to be much better, imo.

Upon close inspection of the picture of the rear of the vmc being moved by the forklift, you can see how they wrapped chains around the frame and directly over the X-axis linear rails, with nothing in between!

Linear rails (along with the ballscrews) are the mechanical precision of the machines, so you don't want to be locking chains down on them.

ToolCat

Milland · Apr 25, 2021

cnctoolcat said:
These riggers don't seem to be much better, imo.

Upon close inspection of the picture of the rear of the vmc being moved by the forklift, you can see how they wrapped chains around the frame and directly over the X-axis linear rails, with nothing in between!

Linear rails (along with the ballscrews) are the mechanical precision of the machines, so you don't want to be locking chains down on them.

ToolCat

I think (hope) what you're seeing in the third pic is the chain going over something besides the actual rail, there's a dark rectangle that extends either side of the chain that seems to protect the rail, whether some softener or an extension of the traveling column I can't say.

But agreed, if the chain DID contact the LR's that's a big no-no, and they should get their ears boxed. If the chain is placed over an extension of the traveling column, they shouldn't ratchet it too tight, because then they're risking Brinelling of the carriage balls into the rail.

I've not had bad experiences in the MA/NH area with the riggers I've used (still have an ancient Shaughnessy shirt), but would like to avoid these guys...

Scruffy887 · Apr 25, 2021

cameraman said:
Awesome purchase and idea...

Vertical Travelling Column machine with fixed table.
esp. built to your specs (in Kentucky).

78" / 2000 mm version.

Any idea if a 40 taper version can be had for around or smidge under $200K ? (don't laugh too much ) or really $250K ++ ,

Are you going partition, 4th axis or 50 taper etc. ? Spindle rpm ...

we've been looking for a fixed table travelling column machine (or ram-style long bridge fixed table). *
, looking at your pics trying to figure if there are any panels left and right of the table that can be removed or "Bored" through (Optical alignment tasks).

Ta.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

* What I like about that concept is the table is (I believe) ??? 20" in Y so the ergonomics are really good to do tricky/ long setups without having to lean too far into a machine and easy access to the spindle. Other than being super helpful for long and heavy work pieces and fixtures.

Look on the end view and you will see 2 hand holes for a removable panel at left (machine front). Remove that panel for access to the table for long items, another panel on other end of enclosure. I drilled 12)96" long W9 I beams on my VTC300C and had a 10' section of roller conveyor bringing them into the machine. Roll in, flip into vises, drill loads of holes, roll out and repeat.

Speedie said:
I dont know of any rigger in our area dumb enough to even a used machine sit outside in the rain. That is complete bullshit. You invested, most likely are making payments on something that might have been dead on arrival. What kind of arrangement is that.

For sure I was not happy, but not very worried after seeing how the factory wraps these machines. Only holes in the plastic were for tie down chains, holes just enough to get chain through. Pic shows transport getting ready for crane loading.

cnctoolcat said:
These riggers don't seem to be much better, imo.

Upon close inspection of the picture of the rear of the vmc being moved by the forklift, you can see how they wrapped chains around the frame and directly over the X-axis linear rails, with nothing in between!

Linear rails (along with the ballscrews) are the mechanical precision of the machines, so you don't want to be locking chains down on them.

ToolCat

That chain may or may not be touching the rail, for sure not touching the screw. Chain goes through one of the 2 round tie down holes in the base, chained to forks. That may just be the excess chain length looped where it is not dragging. You can see other hole on right side of base. And the Mazak Rep was there for the whole time watching things closely. It was a very tight fit getting in and we had to remove the side steel (building) from one side and pound down the welded on I beam flange that held that side of the jamb. One rigger was holding a piece of cardboard as front sheet metal was rubbing on the other steel jamb. No scratches. Just a but of slightly bent metal where one section snagged the flange before I flattened it. Not a scratch and I can easily bend that bit back.
We got the building closed up by 5:30 and called it a day. I had been at it since 6 that morning. Yesterday I finished re installing the OH door top rails along with the parts that supported the jack shaft. Wound the spring, made final adjustments, and applied all new weather stripping. Today I am fluffing off. I had to do household trash run to company dumpster, so went in to walk around and look at the new machines.
Tomorrow I start cleaning protective goop off.

Scruffy887 · Apr 25, 2021

After looking I see the chain is touching the rail. The excess was draped there. For sure it was placed there gently because there was no disturbance in the uniform spray coating goop. My guess was that once the chain was wrapped to the forks the operator spread the forks slightly to take up any slack.
And if it was a July day that forklift would have sunk in the tarmac. It left ruts as it was.

cameraman · Apr 25, 2021

Scruffy887 said:
Look on the end view and you will see 2 hand holes for a removable panel at left (machine front). Remove that panel for access to the table for long items, another panel on other end of enclosure. I drilled 12)96" long W9 I beams on my VTC300C and had a 10' section of roller conveyor bringing them into the machine. Roll in, flip into vises, drill loads of holes, roll out and repeat.

For sure I was not happy, but not very worried after seeing how the factory wraps these machines. Only holes in the plastic were for tie down chains, holes just enough to get chain through. Pic shows transport getting ready for crane loading.
View attachment 319861

That chain may or may not be touching the rail, for sure not touching the screw. Chain goes through one of the 2 round tie down holes in the base, chained to forks. That may just be the excess chain length looped where it is not dragging. You can see other hole on right side of base. And the Mazak Rep was there for the whole time watching things closely. It was a very tight fit getting in and we had to remove the side steel (building) from one side and pound down the welded on I beam flange that held that side of the jamb. One rigger was holding a piece of cardboard as front sheet metal was rubbing on the other steel jamb. No scratches. Just a but of slightly bent metal where one section snagged the flange before I flattened it. Not a scratch and I can easily bend that bit back.
We got the building closed up by 5:30 and called it a day. I had been at it since 6 that morning. Yesterday I finished re installing the OH door top rails along with the parts that supported the jack shaft. Wound the spring, made final adjustments, and applied all new weather stripping. Today I am fluffing off. I had to do household trash run to company dumpster, so went in to walk around and look at the new machines.
Tomorrow I start cleaning protective goop off.

Looks great - saw from the pics you took the building apart a smidge and now it goes back nicer with upgrades / weather strip :-)

Scruffy887 said:
Look on the end view and you will see 2 hand holes for a removable panel at left (machine front). Remove that panel for access to the table for long items, another panel on other end of enclosure. I drilled 12)96" long W9 I beams on my VTC300C and had a 10' section of roller conveyor bringing them into the machine. Roll in, flip into vises, drill loads of holes, roll out and repeat.

^^^ That's awesome to know / very exciting - thanks for sharing/ explaining. (VTC300C - bigger machine - nice.).

in spite of all that machine looks clean/sharp / tight.

When all that sheet metal goes together could be quite a monumental looking machine (big tall wall).

Be interesting to see how they get that all leveled up nicely. And do they / MAZAK techs come back to tweak level after the machine settles in a bit ? Weeks or months later ...

Mazak don't show how much the VTC 200C weighs (on their first pass downloadable PDFs).

Milland · Apr 25, 2021

Good to hear there wasn't a risk to the rail.

Scruffy887 · Apr 25, 2021

cameraman said:
Mazak don't show how much the VTC 200C weighs (on their first pass downloadable PDFs).

If you ask Mazak it weighs 16k. If you look on the name plate it weighs 18k.

Weather strip was not an upgrade. There were 2x lumber pieces added to the metal building jambs for the OH door to attach to. When we stripped the weather stripping the ring shank nails pulled right out. Not treated lumber and hollowed out by little noseeum bugs.

Scruffy887 · May 1, 2021

Mazak tech showed up Wednesday, second tech Thursday. Setup is happening. Both machines are powered up. Both machines have lockouts on disconnect for the weekend. But I can look at them. The machines are in a very clean area surrounded by chaos from moving stuff around.
I moved a 15,000 pound router myself and never looked up. Yup, hose exhaust connection now not so good.

CBlair · May 1, 2021

I wasnt really paying much attention earlier. Are these the new machines that Mazak has been advertising lately? I have noticed the adds and comments in Instagram but have not payed much attention to them. If these are the new machines what is different about them that makes them desirable to you?

Charles

I think I just remembered the new machines are labeled as EZ machines, so not the same as what you have. Sorry.

Charles

Scruffy887 · May 1, 2021

CBlair said:
I wasnt really paying much attention earlier. Are these the new machines that Mazak has been advertising lately? I have noticed the adds and comments in Instagram but have not payed much attention to them. If these are the new machines what is different about them that makes them desirable to you?

Charles

I think I just remembered the new machines are labeled as EZ machines, so not the same as what you have. Sorry.

Charles

I looked at an EZ mill and would need 2 of them to do what I want to do. Better choice? I did not think so. But they would easily go through the door so there is that. Mazak also has an EZ lathe? Tooling not compatible with the 2 current Zak lathes I have. EZ series is made to a price point for competition.
The new Smooth G control has features I like. Like ability to load .dxf or .step file to create a program? Hell yeah.

Cycle1000 · May 2, 2021

Nice

That mill looks like the table is so low.I love it after the knee breakers I always seem to have.

Scruffy887 · May 2, 2021

Cycle1000 said:
Nice
That mill looks like the table is so low.I love it after the knee breakers I always seem to have.

Very low table and very tall sheet metal. That yellow step ladder is a six footer. I highly doubt I will have swarf pieces flying over the enclosure.

Milland · May 2, 2021

Scruffy887 said:
Very low table and very tall sheet metal. That yellow step ladder is a six footer. I highly doubt I will have swarf pieces flying over the enclosure.

"If there's one thing the history of machining has taught us, it's that swarf will not be contained. Swarf breaks free, it expands to new territories, and crashes through barriers painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, uh, well, there it is..."

"Swarf will find a way."

Vancbiker · May 2, 2021

And even if swarf doesn’t make it out coolant will.

New machines day, week, month, F'n whatever.

Titanium

Titanium

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Titanium

Diamond

Titanium

Cast Iron

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

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