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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Heh - you already know the answer...
    they don't apply to educational fair use.

    They also don't apply to religious use. (Like if a church decided to build a telescope they wouldn't have to obey patent laws either, which are even more restrictive than copyright.)

    Patent and copyright have no "compelling government interest" that they can really argue against the RFRA. and anything the government owns is public domain.

    ergo copyright is against my religion. (God knows and created everything, man created nothing.)

    additionally there are a lot of modern scientists who believe the patent system is too restrictive and should be done away with anyway.

    it is not really productive for society and just serves to impede progress for patent trolls who have money.

    Interesting story, Google decided to argue that Android's use of Java APIs for money was fair use, but demonetizes videos that use fair use on youtube.

    I'm not trying to build machines for sale. Just think information should be free.

    It's not like it's some big secret and the chinese can't do it. so I should be able to do it and the information should be free.


    This is why when I figure out how to build a CNC machine that does "Electro Chemical Grinding" "ECG" of ball screws I plan to share it freely (as in beer). Information seems to show that ECG achieves 2-4 um surface finish and so lapping is only lightly needed if a better finish is desired. It also produces no wear on the tools. as the "grinding" is electrochemical.

    Although the process is "slow" (it could be fast if you have a very expensive 5000 amps power supply)

  2. #62
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    I didn't read all of this but the heat from your hand sitting a few inches away can be enough to flex your machine out of spec.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strostkovy View Post
    I didn't read all of this but the heat from your hand sitting a few inches away can be enough to flex your machine out of spec.
    this is possibly true.

    I don't think I would be near it while it is running for long enough to affect it.

    It depends on the thermal mass and propagation, how long one can be around it.

    room temp is very important when even working with thousandths, let alone ten thousandths.

    I don't believe anyone could really reach millionths in the home shop. or ten millionths even. At least not in machining. at that point even the sound of the spindle would affect it way too much. flooding coolant wouldn't really help and would probably make it worse.

    There might be some level of photo etching or holography that could be reached but those are also difficult and sensitive. (people might think that this is not on the topic of machining they could be right but think MEMS. There is this sort of crossover domain with flexures and other intelligently designed things that must be machined.)

  4. #64
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    Did you come here just to argue and show how you know more than people with 50 years plus experience?
    Seems like you don't want to hear any answers that do not fit in your thinking box or point of view.
    "A little learning is a dangerous thing; / Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
    Bob

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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Did you come here just to argue and show how you know more than people with 50 years plus experience?
    Seems like you don't want to hear any answers that do not fit in your thinking box or point of view.
    Bob
    No I didn't come here to be argued with by people who never built a machine.

    It's like hearing from a helicopter pilot how it is impossible to build a helicopter.

    I'm beginning to notice though that there are people who don't like change. It's that generation that was born in the 60s and 70s and now everything is different and they lived for so long with things being one way. (They also ruined society in the 80s)

    They have this antiquated "comfort zone" about job security and naysaying any kind of progress and innovation. I bet they are opposed to 3d printing because it is bad for machinists wages. and dont care about the benefit to humanity that it brings.

    Commercially AI is going to replace all of it in a decade or two, and eventually I won't have to deal with jerks that feel entitled to naysay things they've never done because they're set in their ways.

    It's already started. I bet if I told you all twenty years ago that phones could talk to you and keep appointments you'd say it can't be done you have to pay an assistant.

    this is why those companies that sell machines don't tell you what is being worked on. It's called timid ignorance and is a false sense of security. to be set in one's ways and belief that they can't possibly be wrong and nothing can change and they're going to make sure of it in making every effort to subvert progress.

    It is the reason China is going to out compete us. It is EXACTLY what THEY want you to do and how they want you to react.

    In fact if I were a commie I would probably act like you and try to sell people machines that are not practical to buy to push chinesium crap at 2am in American time.

    I don't have time for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unime View Post
    That's why it's been 30 years and he's still a machininst.
    I've been a machinist for 30 years because it's what I love doing, and it pays very well at my level. I make more than most of the engineers at my company.

    Quote Originally Posted by unime View Post
    I came here to ask technical questions
    No, you came here to argue and claim to know better than those who've been there and done that. Several years ago I had the same idea, as has probably everyone here at some point. A CNC machine can't be all that complex, right? It looks so simple. Then I did the research, did a bunch of design work, and started pricing out components. If I value my time at half of what I get paid, it would cost me about twice as much to get a machine half as good as what I can buy. That hold true for any performance level of machine.

    BTW, if you don't value money, how are you going to get that servo for a spindle motor, and steppers to use instead of servos? Are you planning on stealing them, or are you going to make those from scratch too?

    Quote Originally Posted by unime View Post
    I don't have time for it.
    You sure have a lot of time to argue on the internet.

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  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    I've been a machinist for 30 years because it's what I love doing, and it pays very well at my level. I make more than most of the engineers at my company.



    No, you came here to argue and claim to know better than those who've been there and done that. Several years ago I had the same idea, as has probably everyone here at some point. A CNC machine can't be all that complex, right? It looks so simple. Then I did the research, did a bunch of design work, and started pricing out components. If I value my time at half of what I get paid, it would cost me about twice as much to get a machine half as good as what I can buy. That hold true for any performance level of machine.

    BTW, if you don't value money, how are you going to get that servo for a spindle motor, and steppers to use instead of servos? Are you planning on stealing them, or are you going to make those from scratch too?



    You sure have a lot of time to argue on the internet.
    Go away stop harassing my thread. I don't have to answer you because you are wrong.

    Leave me alone.

    If anyone else who wants to have productive conversation about open discussion on how to make a cnc please feel free.

    But If it is to be a so called expert who never even actually made something then don't bother and stay out of my thread it is unwelcome and not truly productive or appreciated.

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    You are asking people who do this as a business to support themselves, their families and employees. They have seen that for them, it is impractical to spend their lives building a machine to do the work that pays the bills when they can get that machine built by experienced professionals on the floor and cranking parts within a week. Not to mention that it comes with support for unexpected failures. This allows them to concentrate their efforts where they will be rewarded.

    If you think that these people who have worked with these machines for decades don’t know what makes them tick, then you have lost already. I guarantee that the engineers who build helicopters dam well listen to the pilots.

    If you want to build machine tools, then get a job with a machine tool builder.

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  12. #69
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    Well I have heard that a mine is a beautiful thing to waste. I didn't like that guy who said that he wanted me to sign over my ideas for him to own it. He can go to hell.

    I am starting to see that these people are just trying to be discouraging and anti competitive because that's what helps them keep people out and under them.

    Prices for things change.

    "If you want anything done right do it yourself."

  13. #70
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    You are in the wrong place to be telling people that they have never built anything. This is a forum specifically dedicated to people who build things. People who know what it takes for a machine to perform to the level you are dreaming of, because they have dealt with the machines that can actually do it and do it well.

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  15. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spruewell View Post
    You are in the wrong place to be telling people that they have never built anything. This is a forum specifically dedicated to people who build things. People who know what it takes for a machine to perform to the level you are dreaming of, because they have dealt with the machines that can actually do it and do it well.
    he already admitted he never built one.

    I started off saying this is a thread about designing one and automatically I get hammered with spam solicitations to buy one from some company, by some "expert" who "just knows" because he "thought about it that one time"

    I get that, his livelihood depends on people not knowing how to affordably make one of these machines. That mindset is just not reasonable nor practical.

    It reminds me of the time I was hired for a company and the person training me to replace them was lying to customers and I saved the company by not lying to customers for money.

  16. #72
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    I think everything you need to know is covered in this thread:

    Building a precision based 5-Axis CNC for metal work

    [Are you rajhlinux's brother?]

    [Yes, how dare I presume your gender...]

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  18. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I think everything you need to know is covered in this thread:

    Building a precision based 5-Axis CNC for metal work

    [Are you rajhlinux's brother?]

    [Yes, how dare I presume your gender...]
    yeah okay it seems that trolls think that anyone asking questions to answers that this forum doesn't have but wants to act like it does, is some kind of bait for them to show up and start trolling and acting like "experts"

    If any of these guys were experts they would clearly have just said simply "anything under 25 microns is probably too tight of a tolerance for repetition."

    I would have accepted that.

    I would have accepted "Secondary processing" as a constructive answer too.

    I would say "well 50 microns is fine and I'll just make an ECM machine to do final processing and remove the last 45 microns."

    I think one thou is achievable. 20 microns. Half a thou maybe but probably not consistently. But I only need to make those types of things one off and don't mind post processing.

    Simply positioning to a few microns repeatedly is fine for me that's good enough. Electrochemical grinding is zero contact anyway and can shave off microns at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unime View Post
    he already admitted he never built one.

    I started off saying this is a thread about designing one and automatically I get hammered with spam solicitations to buy one from some company, by some "expert" who "just knows" because he "thought about it that one time"

    I get that, his livelihood depends on people not knowing how to affordably make one of these machines. That mindset is just not reasonable nor practical.

    It reminds me of the time I was hired for a company and the person training me to replace them was lying to customers and I saved the company by not lying to customers for money.
    Go away. You are full of shit. If you had a clue, you wouldn't be here asking. Stepper motors and tenths, to use or not use "some sort" of ballscrews, Linux, open source yada yada....

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  21. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Go away. You are full of shit. If you had a clue, you wouldn't be here asking. Stepper motors and tenths, to use or not use "some sort" of ballscrews, Linux, open source yada yada....
    My god why are people so DENSE?

    yes dense. cannot understand a simple question or even basic english. not to be confused with stupid although people who are dense are generally also stupid.

    lacking comprehension.

    there's another one probably a southerner. Florida that explains it.

    Tags for this Thread

    cnc, design, diy, micro mill, no trolls

    it doesn't say "mini mill" either that is something larger.

  22. #76
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    Its okay I don't need to do this right away I can come back next month and make another thread that says the same thing with another name and be even more clear to spell it out while I work on this and don't act like I know anything.

  23. #77
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    Default Time to wrap this up?

    Hi all,
    If this isn't rajhlinux's brother, it's his cousin's son's adopted shelter rescue.

    As such, we can either keep feeding it while it types back (one handed) about how it's a Master of the Universe and we're all know-nothing peons, or we can ignore the thread and wait for the OP to come back triumphantly with his unique and awe inspiring reinvention of the wheel.

    I vote for starving the beast. I won't be back.

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  25. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Hi all,
    If this isn't rajhlinux's brother, it's his cousin's son's adopted shelter rescue.

    As such, we can either keep feeding it while it types back (one handed) about how it's a Master of the Universe and we're all know-nothing peons, or we can ignore the thread and wait for the OP to come back triumphantly with his unique and awe inspiring reinvention of the wheel.

    I vote for starving the beast. I won't be back.
    I don't know any rahj or other middle eastern named people.

    bur whatever run of the mill ideas you're trying to feed my thread I don't want it.

    You obviously don't know that much that's why you wont say anything useful and think that not saying something and being snarky makes you intelligent.

    Like a monkey. ape. "me turn wrench thing go big ohh ohh ahh"

    like planet of the apes "flying thing not possible."

    people like you make me want to buy things from china and I hate commies but you're worse. I've never been fuxed by a russian.

    I hope they invade and poor people show up at your work with guns and kill you in the parking lot out of the blue while you're trying to get rich off of the war because you're "those rich people" and they're starving for food and out of work.

    believe God sent them to destroy the "beast with metal teeth"

    I prayed for four years asking for a plague. Maybe He will do it.

  26. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by unime View Post
    My god why are people so DENSE?

    yes dense. cannot understand a simple question or even basic english. not to be confused with stupid although people who are dense are generally also stupid.

    lacking comprehension.

    there's another one probably a southerner. Florida that explains it.

    Tags for this Thread

    cnc, design, diy, micro mill, no trolls

    it doesn't say "mini mill" either that is something larger.
    Says the guy from West Virginia haha!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Says the guy from West Virginia haha!!
    that's not where I'm from though really. I'm not there either. It just says that.

    I saw on the news that there are people who have been gunning down people on the freeway who drive nice trucks.

    I don't drive anything nice and I'm from west virginia. I must be out of work.

    Just me and my old beat up truck and some friends from the ghetto.

    working remotely "from home" but I'm not and you're essential and none of us are.

    That's why we aren't the ones stockpiling ammo in the projects, but the more it costs the more people at the mall are getting shot.

    And I'm just going to sit back and watch.

    You guys going to put your big fancy pants $100,000 machines in your truck and work from home?

    no. cause you're sooooo smart.

    "14-year-old boy charged with murder in shooting of woman in her SUV on Denver’s West Colfax Avenue"


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