New mill / paint comming off

tcncj · Aug 19, 2018

Hello
I've received my first Haas mill in December last year. Pretty happy with it. But paint already start to come off...
Chip pan (where the auger runs) is almost completely back to the bare metal.
This week I noticed it's also starting on the side panels.
I always keep the coolant at the right concentration.
I don't think this is normal for a brand new machine?

Milland · Aug 19, 2018

No, it's not normal. Or it shouldn't be, but there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that Haas QC is slipping, and bad paint/powder coating prep shouldn't be a surprise.

Getting Haas to fix this will be a lot of effort, unless your HFO customer support is better in Germany than what we're getting in the US. It would be worth asking them to repair the damage, but you'll likely have to prove that it's not the coolant or some other aspect of "your fault".

Good luck, let us know how you do.

thermite · Aug 19, 2018

tcncj said:
Hello
I've received my first Haas mill in December last year. Pretty happy with it. But paint already start to come off...
Chip pan (where the auger runs) is almost completely back to the bare metal.
This week I noticed it's also starting on the side panels.
I always keep the coolant at the right concentration.
I don't think this is normal for a brand new machine?

Bean-counter hat on, I'd worry a lot more about how we were going to pay for a machine if the paint was NOT worn-off in the chip-auger area.

Keep coining income with it. It won't have TIME to rust before it earns its upgrade/replacement.

2CW

DMF_TomB · Aug 19, 2018

tcncj said:
Hello
I've received my first Haas mill in December last year. Pretty happy with it. But paint already start to come off...
Chip pan (where the auger runs) is almost completely back to the bare metal.
This week I noticed it's also starting on the side panels.
I always keep the coolant at the right concentration.
I don't think this is normal for a brand new machine?

.
.
many coolants will remove paint. slowly comes off fixtures and any tools marked with paint. sure some paints are better at staying on than others. but doesnt surprise me at all the paint is coming off.
.
oil based spray paint i have seen comes off in less than 1 month especially if in area coolant always in contact with. epoxy paints usually last longer

Kapster · Aug 19, 2018

We have a 2014 vf2ss, and I know another guy that has a 2014 vf2. Ours has great paint, no issues at all. The other guy, who used the HFO's recommended coolant, peeled quite a bit on the floor of the inside of the machine. Personally, I can handle inside the machine but on the outside is unacceptable. The outside would be easier to touch up with spray paint though.

This guy I'm referring to asked them to replace the floor panels. He was told they'd do a lot of damage trying to replace them because of the adhesive they use between the panels. He told them to get a price to do it, they did and took that price off the next machine purchase he made. I know it took a lot of time to get to that point, but worth a talk with your salesman.

tcncj · Aug 19, 2018

I understand it's a machine. But it's my first own cnc mill and I want to take good care for it.
I just wondered if this is normal.
I'm switching over to a different coolant. Because I found another post of someone with the exact same issue (with the coolant we use at the moment).

DMF_TomB · Aug 19, 2018

tcncj said:
I understand it's a machine. But it's my first own cnc mill and I want to take good care for it.
I just wondered if this is normal.
I'm switching over to a different coolant. Because I found another post of someone with the exact same issue (with the coolant we use at the moment).

.
many coolant types got a type of cleaner in it thats basically like a paint remover solvent in it. its often low percentage thus why it takes weeks to take paint off. coolant gets in the air and all over around a machine. what gets little exposure might take a years to take paint off. but in the machine under direct constant coolant exposure paint going to come off a lot quicker
.
hot caustic can take paint off in one minute. at least it last longer than one minute

Kapster · Aug 19, 2018

tcncj said:
I understand it's a machine. But it's my first own cnc mill and I want to take good care for it.
I just wondered if this is normal.
I'm switching over to a different coolant. Because I found another post of someone with the exact same issue (with the coolant we use at the moment).

I think your concern is 100% justified. You paid the money for a new machine, and want it to look good. I think it says something to customers that may visit your shop, if you have well cared for modern equipment.

I treat my machines where I work very well, even though I didn’t pay for them. Doesn’t take long to give em a cleaning while parts are running. Our 2014 still looks like new, we have a machine from 2016 another guy runs, front is all scratched up and is always dirty, looks older then ”my machine”.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cnctoolcat · Aug 19, 2018

The very strict environmental regulations in California prevent Haas from using the best paints and powder coats available.

Could have something to do with your premature paint wear?

I never fret too much about paint coming off the insides of my CNC's, but expect the paint on the outside to last - keeping the machine looking good where it needs too.

ToolCat

Wsurfer · Aug 19, 2018

I've designed tons (literally) of sheet metal booths and enclosures. Im dumbfounded that mfrs dont use 304ss for enclosures on a machine thats $60k +. No need for paint and dont have to handle it with kid gloves when installing or shipping. :nutter:

thermite · Aug 19, 2018

Wsurfer said:
I've designed tons (literally) of sheet metal booths and enclosures. Im dumbfounded that mfrs dont use 304ss for enclosures on a machine thats $60k +. No need for paint and dont have to handle it with kid gloves when installing or shipping.

Copious use of stainless (some of it not very GOOD SS, but that's another story..) is a cheap Chinese trick.

Who'd want to copy THEM!

adama · Aug 19, 2018

thermite said:
Copious use of stainless (some of it not very GOOD SS, but that's another story..) is a cheap Chinese trick.

Who'd want to copy THEM!

You don't want good stainless, not sure what you call it but over here theres a stuff that goes as chromeweld, its bellow 304 as stainless corrosion resistance goes, but its designed for corrosion and wear resistance, its used a lot to line chutes and such, has a lovely smooth finish and stuff naturally slides on it a treat, cost wise its cheaper than mild steel when you factor in the additional costs of paint too. Would be just the stuff to make coolant tanks, auger chutes, enclosures and way covers out of.

In the food industry everything is bare stainless so its easy to keep clean, really don't get why this trade is so different.

thermite · Aug 19, 2018

adama said:
You don't want good stainless, not sure what you call it but over here theres a stuff that goes as chromeweld, its bellow 304 as stainless corrosion resistance goes, but its designed for corrosion and wear resistance, its used a lot to line chutes and such, has a lovely smooth finish and stuff naturally slides on it a treat, cost wise its cheaper than mild steel when you factor in the additional costs of paint too. Would be just the stuff to make coolant tanks, auger chutes, enclosures and way covers out of.

In the food industry everything is bare stainless so its easy to keep clean, really don't get why this trade is so different.

Hong Kong, sheet stainless will be used to wrap reinforced concrete columns as a cheaper finish than better concrete or their old standby - a near infinite count of itty-bitty tiles.

Downside it the air is so polluted - mayhap from factories upriver MAKING "cheap stainless" that it ain't "stainless" for very long, gradually goes a tinge brownish!

Payback is a Mother.....

But yeah. "Wear" plates, Telco rack "extras", or heat-shields for the kitchen cookers, drop into a shop on Reclamation Street between Mong Kok and Yau Ma Tei with a sketch in either Inch or Metric units, walk out a few minutes later with neatly de-burred sheets, edges wrapped and taped for a taxi or underground rail trek. It's priced off a freight scale, computed at so much a ton, no extra fees for cutting, de-burr, nor wrapping.

And you don't need even ONE word of Chinese to do the deal.

Steel and sketch speak a universal lingo. You just point a finger at which thickness, alloy, surface-finish suit the needs of the hour, and they fire-up the cold saw or shear.

You need a custom size of noodle-boiler, bakery or fryer pan? Nuther guy, back street in Wanchai with an English wheel, pressure welder, and a lot more odds and sods of gear will make you one to shape and size while you watch, weld on a handle "seamless" for easy cleaning, ELSE rivet it, your choice.

His Grandaddy was probably a "tinsmith", great G'G' G'Dad Copper.

Not he. Stainless, now.

SIM · Aug 20, 2018

In the auger trough I think you can expect to see the paint coming off with some good use. Back panels...in spots of heavy use with good sized chips pinpointed to an area..yes I can see that happening.
I am however thinking your coolant is really the culprit...that and not the best paint being used by Haas.
I have played around with many coolants when I started with the CNC, it was around the same time my old standby coolant formula changed turning rancid in too short a time.

All coolants mixed to specification put in cleaned machines. Some attack the materials being machined, others went after the rubber molding and wipers, and then other coolants had the paint lifting away. Some coolants leeched materials creating "Goop" in coolant lines and clogging lathe spindle labyrinth to the point it almost seemed as if it were seized.

High concentrations with many played out similar...

In short...sounds like your coolant is not playing well with "your" machine.

DMF_TomB · Aug 20, 2018

thin 304 SS is better and good enough. usually dont need 316 SS. even kitchen refrigerators are covered in SS. sure it will cost more money even $1000. more for bigger machine
.
machine manufacturer cannot guarantee paint will stick if you insist on using a coolant that can also be used as a paint remover.

Madis Reivik · Aug 20, 2018

My Robodrill is almost 20years old and paint is worn only because of mechanical abrasion, which is logical.
So, its the quality of surface preparation, every idiot can powder coat but surface prep is another thing..

DMF_TomB · Aug 20, 2018

yes many coolants also will attach rubber seals. i used to take a small tray and test rubber orings and often seen them swell up 200 to 300% bigger like macaroni. gets soft, sometimes sticky or cause swelling bigger effects free movement on machine parts
.
i have often seen probe problems or sticking where it needed probe head replaced or sent out for repair cause coolant got on it somehow.
.
there are different rubber types some better resistance to chemicals. unfortunately many rubbers are cheaper types with a lot of recycled rubber mixed in. that is even if you get epdm rubber it can have other recycled rubber mixed in and not be 100%. if you ask for 100% peroxide cured epdm many manufacturers will say sure if you order minimum $10,000 worth otherwise you take what we got and its not guaranteed 100%

DMF_TomB · Aug 20, 2018

Madis Reivik said:
My Robodrill is almost 20years old and paint is worn only because of mechanical abrasion, which is logical.
So, its the quality of surface preparation, every idiot can powder coat but surface prep is another thing..

.
not all coolant is the same.
.
many types can be used as paint remover too. some is caustic and some has a type of solvent in it both of which will remove many types of paint

Guest · Aug 20, 2018

cnctoolcat said:
The very strict environmental regulations in California prevent Haas from using the best paints and powder coats available.

Could have something to do with your premature paint wear?

I never fret too much about paint coming off the insides of my CNC's, but expect the paint on the outside to last - keeping the machine looking good where it needs too.

ToolCat

I lived in California, I know all about their over the top regulations regarding paints and painting. As someone who restored a few cars I know for a fact in the early 90's you could only buy water based primer in the automotive paint supply stores. Not sure what is available now. In the same era they started to force all business that painted cars, machined parts, etc to have down draft paint booths. It put a lot of small shops that did spray on bed liners out of business. The only way around installing a $50k paint booth was using a spray can. That is what I did because at the time only painting alternator brackets and mounting plates.

Pathogen · Aug 20, 2018

Why would someone in Germany buy an American made machine from California?

And then wonder why the colored coating is already falling off.

I suspect you haven't seen nothing yet.

New mill / paint comming off

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