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New small lathe

tcncj

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Hello

We're looking for a new 2-axis CNC lathe.
Our current slant bed machine is an old thing. Works fine though but not very production orientated (manual chuck/tailstock).
And we need to turn long parts, too long parts for this machine. We're turning a max length of +/- 34cm.
And I don't want to buy another used old machine. 90% of out work is Aluminum.

We already have a Haas mill, which works fine. And a Haas lathe would be an option.
But the prices for the lathes are much higher compared to the milling machines.
Besides 90% of our work is milling, so don't want/need to spend allot on a lathe which wont run 8h a day.

A flat bed lathe would be the way to go I think.
Because a slant bed with +/- 34cm turning range and a tailstock is $$$

4 station turret is fine (8 is luxury).
Hydraulic chuck and tailstock is a must
min 40mm spindle bore

So I came across the Haas TL-1 which seems fine for the work we're doing with a lathe.
But pretty expensive (with some options) compared to what you get. And I doubt it even has a hydraulic chuck/tailstock.

I did some searching for alternatives and came across a Chinese manufacturer, called ZMAT.
There is a company in the US who sells rebranded zmat mnachines, but forgot the name.

I asked for quote for this machine (FTL320): Z-MaT Official Site (Zhenhuan Machine Tool)
They are available with hydraulic chuck and tailstock. Base model is 13.000usd.
Model with hydraulic chuck, tailstock and 8 station turret is 21.500usd
So I'm curious if someone got experience with these machines?
 
Besides the Haas you mention, the lathe below is about the smallest of that ilk that is worth a hoot that I've run across. Ganesh has stopped offering that model but I have a 2012 year identical to below, absolutely pristine I would consider selling.

CNC Lathes Precision: Yes Swing (Inch): 854169 - MSC

Control is Fagor with conversational programming option and lots of cool color graphics for each function.

That ZMat lathe looks interesting but highly suspect they don't mention what the control is....could be a Chinese copy of Fanuc or Siemens (or the "entry level Fanuc "mate" control, which is a bit crude) and suspect after sales support would be abysmal to non existent. .

At that price it has to be Chinese...a world of difference in Taiwanese and Chinese machines, quality wise. Most Taiwanese CNC with main line controls (Fanuc, Siemens, Fagor) are better than Haas, whereas most Chinese CNC are way worse.

Re the tool turret...just gets in the way if you are doing mostly short run stuff....but if longer runs that need a turret, better to get a proper slant bed production CNC lathe.
 
Your link is not working. Besides I'm not in the US ;)

Control is GSK980TDi or Siemens808D Advance (Siemens is 2000usd extra). But I don't really care. I don't program at the machine. I send the gcode over and that's it.

A full production machine is too expensive at the moment.
I think I can bridge the gap (with a zmat for example) between our old machine and a full production machine.

I found the name. It's Automate CNC. They sell those Zmat machines
 
Daft question, but you do realize there's shipping then Duties on top + VAT hence total cost will easily be in the mid £20K range? hence this may well not end up as cheap as your hoping.
 
Yep of course. But I shipped a machine from China before and prices are fairly cheap.
I'm a company and can get the vat/tax back.

I compared the Haas with the Z-mat.
A Haas TL-1 with manual chuck and manual tailstock, rigid tapping, 3000rpm spindle is 44.000usd.
Not an option anyway because it got manual tailstock. And a ST lathe is too expensive at the moment.
 
Couple of Gildemeister CTX400 just went at auction. One was a '99, the other a 2000 model. Fast, true production machines with very modern for their time Heidenhain controls. 5 or 6k rpm spindles, c axis, live tools. Bigger than you need, but a pretty compact machine.

Gildermeister CTX 4 52 CNC Lathe
Wasn't watching the final hammer price, but I expect it was around the 10-15k mark. There's a lot of these in this country and they appear at auction regularly.
 
Couple of Gildemeister CTX400 just went at auction. One was a '99, the other a 2000 model. Fast, true production machines with very modern for their time Heidenhain controls. 5 or 6k rpm spindles, c axis, live tools. Bigger than you need, but a pretty compact machine.

Gildermeister CTX 4 52 CNC Lathe
Wasn't watching the final hammer price, but I expect it was around the 10-15k mark. There's a lot of these in this country and they appear at auction regularly.
Apparently they were hoping for first place in the "Most Worthless Machine Tool Video Ever" category.
 
Apparently they were hoping for first place in the "Most Worthless Machine Tool Video Ever" category.

At least the camera was (sort of) steady....But yes, worthless.

So many of these look like a GoPro was glued on the head of an overcaffinated
squirrel, and let loose in the shop.
 
Ok duties and true cost delivered aside, the only thing that jumps out to me is, IS IT BIG ENOUGH??? Your desired turning length is pretty dang near the Z travel, depending on were the turret sits, the depth of the chuck - chuck jaws tool lengths ETC you may be too tight to get your turned length comfortably in there.

Not sure what the cost jumps by but you might be far better served by the model up, you will definitely have the space to index and not have to really shoe horn your part in on that one. Same goes for spindle bore, read that carefully, hydraulic chuk means draw tube and that in turns means less capacity, depending on your bar material a 40mm rod may well not fit up a 40mm draw bar, not so bad in metals, but certainly a real pain in the ass in plastics as 40mm plastic rods are typically nearer 41-42mm in my experience and thats caused more than a few people problems in the past.
 
Apparently they were hoping for first place in the "Most Worthless Machine Tool Video Ever" category.

I had to watch it, just for this comment. WOW!!! I guess the door glass isn't broken, and the Turret moves. I can hear the Spindle winding up and down, so there's that too??

Maybe we should start a Thread in the General forum; "worst CNC videos ever" or maybe not CNC just; "worst Machinery videos".

R
 
Ok duties and true cost delivered aside, the only thing that jumps out to me is, IS IT BIG ENOUGH??? Your desired turning length is pretty dang near the Z travel, depending on were the turret sits, the depth of the chuck - chuck jaws tool lengths ETC you may be too tight to get your turned length comfortably in there.

Not sure what the cost jumps by but you might be far better served by the model up, you will definitely have the space to index and not have to really shoe horn your part in on that one. Same goes for spindle bore, read that carefully, hydraulic chuk means draw tube and that in turns means less capacity, depending on your bar material a 40mm rod may well not fit up a 40mm draw bar, not so bad in metals, but certainly a real pain in the ass in plastics as 40mm plastic rods are typically nearer 41-42mm in my experience and thats caused more than a few people problems in the past.

Thanks for the information
I must say I'm fairly new to the CNC stuff.
Good point about the turning length. I step up to a FTL400 would be a better option.
 
Just received some more information about the machine.

Rigid tapping is standard (both on the GSK and Siemens)
Spindle orientation is optional and must be used with driven tools. Not that I need it.

The body of the tailstock can be moved by hand. But the actual sleeve moves hydraulic/pneumatic
 
Is there a reason why you're not interested in a used machine?

The CTX I linked is 10 times the machine of the two that you've mentioned so far. It was just one example. For the kind of money you're talking about for your new Haas you could easily get an under 10 year old real turning centre in good condition.

The last used machine we bought was an 8 year old (at the time) Doosan S310-SMLY. We paid about £45k IIRC. That's a 10" chuck machine with 12 station turret, live tools, Y axis, subspindle, bar magazine.
 
I don't live in the UK (need to update profile)
And used machines (the ones I like) are hard to find and insanely priced.
They sell used 16 year old Haas Minimills in crap condition for 20.000 Euro.
Same goes for the lathes.

I prefer to buy new or less than 4 years old. But the used machines that are available are out of my price range and too big. And I don't have the required power for the machines.
Besides I hate old crappy machines that look dirty.
A new ZMAT 340 or 400 is fairly cheap and would be perfect for our lathe work (which is only 10% of our total work).
With the 4 position toolchanger and gang tooling (which can be added to the be) I can do all my work.
 
Is there a reason why you're not interested in a used machine?

The CTX I linked is 10 times the machine of the two that you've mentioned so far. It was just one example. For the kind of money you're talking about for your new Haas you could easily get an under 10 year old real turning centre in good condition.

The last used machine we bought was an 8 year old (at the time) Doosan S310-SMLY. We paid about £45k IIRC. That's a 10" chuck machine with 12 station turret, live tools, Y axis, subspindle, bar magazine.

Yes!!! He wants to experience first hand the piss poor quality and non existent customer support of a chi-com machine!
 
I had to watch it, just for this comment. WOW!!! I guess the door glass isn't broken, and the Turret moves. I can hear the Spindle winding up and down, so there's that too??
The icing on the cake is one can't even be sure the video is of that particular machine, nor when it was taken.... could be almost any CNC lathe on Earth, taken in 1999 for all we know. Well ok, we do see a "lot 3" sticker on the safety glass at least...LOL.
 
I obviously can't talk money wise but from the comments, and personal experience, haas is way over priced unless you are in the USA.
I personally would look for a used Kia/Wia or equivalent Taiwanese slant machine with the requirements that you spec. Good chance you will get the tailstock,way larger bore than you need and a solid machine. 340mm is not much between centres so you will easily find a machine that can do longer.

If you have your heart set on a flat bed style lathe have a look at some Taiwanese teach style lathes. I have a Takang with a Fagor that has paid for itself more than ten times over. I have had it now from new for about +- 12 years. At the time that we bought it we looked at a Haas toolroom lathe and it is honestly a toy next to mine. We got it with manual quick change tool post (because you lose swing with the toolchanger) and manual tailstock and chuck. I think you can get it with the hydraulic tailstock cylinder now. In essence it is a beefy manual machine with a brilliant Fagor control driving it. RPM's are a bit low though. I got mine with 1.3M between centres and a 80mm spindle bore which makes it a pleasure for quick one off parts. My main issues have been X drive belt twice,pump bearing once,dead battery once, Fagor feed knob giving in and not much else in all honesty. It is what it is though, not a high speed machine in any way but it sure will run laps around the Haas when it comes to rigidity. I have punished it on some parts over the years and it is still running. It is not a production machine but used to it's strengths you can push out 1-500 off parts without too many issues. On mine the downfalls are the manual tool change and chuck that does not help it on the production side but we did not buy it for production work.

As others have said... There is a big difference between Chinese and decent Taiwanese machines, at least from my experience.
 
The icing on the cake is one can't even be sure the video is of that particular machine, nor when it was taken.... could be almost any CNC lathe on Earth, taken in 1999 for all we know. Well ok, we do see a "lot 3" sticker on the safety glass at least...LOL.

Lots of auction videos are similar. I don't understand it. I would assume a low wage helper with no knowledge of the subject, except that the photos are well done in most cases.
 








 
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