No 4th axis: Will Helical Interpolation do this? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Toss it in the vibe....


    ---------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Why??
    If you have 1,000 of them to do, why not find a shop with a CAD/CAM program and pay them $100 to write a quick program for you? It would take them 15 minutes tops.
    I wholeheartedly agree and may end up doing just that. However, I also feel its important to understand the process. Like I mentioned, I'm still learning and would like to have a good grasp on helical interpolation and 3D coding.

    Really appreciate the feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Why??
    If you have 1,000 of them to do, why not find a shop with a CAD/CAM program and pay them $100 to write a quick program for you? It would take them 15 minutes tops.
    This.

    Just have someone else do it right for you. Easier and maybe cheaper than wasting time with it.

    Heck, I bet someone here bored enough would even do it for free. Pretty simple operation there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlykitten View Post
    try 4+4*3+2+2=20 lines

    4 : for the sides : 2 constant Z + 2 variable Z
    4*3 : 4 corner arches * 3 segments each
    2 : in & out movement in XY plane
    2 : in & out movement among Z axis
    in almost twice the size i make it parametric in less than 15 minutes

    ...maybe i will share a sample tomorrow

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoushon View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree and may end up doing just that. However, I also feel its important to understand the process. Like I mentioned, I'm still learning and would like to have a good grasp on helical interpolation and 3D coding.

    Really appreciate the feedback.


    The winder that is sqr with the part would be easy to doo with a Y/Z arc, but the cattywampus winder - I bet that you could doo an X/Y arc to get there - perfectly. And actually - you could prolly trig it out to know what fer arc that you need. How much Z lift in that segment = how much convex that you would need.

    Should be simple with R word.


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    The winder that is sqr with the part would be easy to doo with a Y/Z arc, but the cattywampus winder - I bet that you could doo an X/Y arc to get there - perfectly. And actually - you could prolly trig it out to know what fer arc that you need. How much Z lift in that segment = how much convex that you would need.

    Should be simple with R word.


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I almost had to get Google to translate that part for me, then I saw it was Ox and it suddenly all made sence No 4th axis:  Will Helical Interpolation do this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    The winder that is sqr with the part would be easy to doo with a Y/Z arc, but the cattywampus winder - I bet that you could doo an X/Y arc to get there - perfectly. And actually - you could prolly trig it out to know what fer arc that you need. How much Z lift in that segment = how much convex that you would need.

    Should be simple with R word.


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Ur killin me thar Ox man! Its bees my fortune that my maw is from Kentucky.....lest wise I won't never understood what ya'll was sayin! I rekon I my have to do a lil that thar trig-o-no-ometry to figr it out my own self...

    Just to be crystal...are you sayin that thar catywampus winder..the one thats a little slac-jawed on one side...you sayin that can be done with an X/Y?...

    How in the heck you gonna get that Z to move up and down at the right time without writin a line of code every time it moves a cat's hair? Not seein that simple R word thang ya got goin thar.

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    Its akshully an E-lips.

    But I bet a G18/G19 and G3 might be close enough? Kinda like a horizontal helix.

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    ... something like this

    Code:
        LVL = width/2
        LVH = height/2_among_cilinder_generator
        LVR = window_corner_radius
        LVCR = nominal_cilinder_radius
    
    
     ( * )
    
    
        LAX = -LVL
        LAY = +LVH
        LBX = +LVL
        LBY = +LVH
        LCX = +LVL
        LCY = -LVH
        LDX = -LVL
        LDY = -LVH
    
    
        LA1X = LAX+0
        LA1Y = LAY-LVR
        LA2X = LAX+LVR
        LA2Y = LAY-0
    
    
        LB1X = LBX-LVR
        LB1Y = LBY+0
        LB2X = LBX+0
        LB2Y = LBY-LVR
    
    
        LC1X = LCX+0
        LC1Y = LCY+LVR
        LC2X = LCX-LVR
        LC2Y = LCY+0
    
    
        LD1X = LDX+LVR
        LD1Y = LDY+0
        LD2X = LDX+0
        LD2Y = LDY+LVR
    
    
        G00 X = LA1X+2.5 Y = LA1Y Z0
        G01 X = LA1X
    
    
        CALL OCCH LV01 = LA2X
    
    
        *normal plane
        G02 X = LA2X Y = LA2Y Z = +LV01 R = LVR
        * shift plane
        G02 X = LB1X Y = LB1Y           R = LVCR
        *normal plane
        G02 X = LB2X Y = LB2Y Z = -LV01 R = LVR
        G01 X = LC1X Y = LC1Y
        G02 X = LC2X Y = LC2Y Z = +LV01 R = LVR
        * shift plane
        G02 X = LD1X Y = LD1Y           R = LVCR
        *normal plane
        G02 X = LD2X Y = LD2Y Z = -LV01 R = LVR
        G01 X = LA1X Y = LA1Y
        G00 X = LA1X+2.5
        
    RTS
    
    
     ( . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . )
    
    
    OCCH
    
    
        LV01 = SQRT [ LVCR * LVCR - LV01 * LV01 ]
    
    
    RTS
    
    
     ( . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . )

  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booze Daily View Post
    Its akshully an E-lips.

    But I bet a G18/G19 and G3 might be close enough? Kinda like a horizontal helix.
    I see....horizontal helix. Yep...That makes perfect sense!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoushon View Post

    Just to be crystal...are you sayin that thar catywampus winder..the one thats a little slac-jawed on one side...you sayin that can be done with an X/Y?...

    How in the heck you gonna get that Z to move up and down at the right time without writin a line of code every time it moves a cat's hair? Not seein that simple R word thang ya got goin thar.

    Your preferred motion is a 3x arc, but we can emulate that with a 2X move.

    For clarity's sakes, let's straighten it up - like the sqr hole...


    You want to go from Y1. to Y-1 by way of an apex in Z in the middle.
    Let's say that your Z inc move is +.2 up and back down...

    Y1.
    G2 Y-1. R4. (for the left side of the winder)

    Now I'm not takin' the time right now to trig it out - especially when it is only a sample code, but hopefully you will follow along...

    As you arc away from your straight line - you are gitt'n as far away from it as the apex of the tube is coming up.
    As long as you have enough cutter, it will just make contact at a different point on the chamfer tool.

    If you git the right rad, it should come out perfect.


    Now it is easier to just doo a Y/Z arc for winder 1, but fer winder 2 - you know your start and finish points, so just use an R to save from triging out your I/J, unless you have CAM I guess....


    This is not THAT much different than a C/X move - but we would be hitting on a diferent point on the cutter in this situation.



    Actually - your R value is prolly 1/2 the tube diameter.
    You arc into the center of the winder at the same rate that the Z is coming up.



    -----------------------------

    It should werk.
    Nope - not done it.
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoushon View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree and may end up doing just that. However, I also feel its important to understand the process. Like I mentioned, I'm still learning and would like to have a good grasp on helical interpolation and 3D coding.

    Really appreciate the feedback.
    If you are wanting to learn from it, have them program it for you, then study the code while you're making chips. This way you're better prepared for the next time you need to hand code something like this.

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    I learn better by doing stuff and seeing what works and what doesn't. I've done a lot of medical work over the years and I've seen some really weird geometry.

    I'm also probably one of the laziest SOB's you'll ever meet, so rather than overthink stuff, I tend to break it down into simple elements.

    I think programming this by hand will really be a good excercise in thinking outside the box.

  18. #34
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    Actually - your R value is prolly 1/2 the tube diameter.
    You arc into the center of the winder at the same rate that the Z is coming up.

    I'm bett'n that'd be right - for the hole that's square with the world, but for the cattywompus hole, I would expect that you would need a bigger rad to come out in the worsh.


    --------------------------------

    Sweatin' to the Oldies!
    Ox

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    Do you have rotation on your control? If so, you should be able to rotate your WCS to the slant angle of the window and then select G18/G19 to mill the sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountie View Post
    Do you have rotation on your control? If so, you should be able to rotate your WCS to the slant angle of the window and then select G18/G19 to mill the sides.

    I wonder if it would create a 3X arc by simply "rotating"?
    That would be interesting to find out.

    Have you done that before?


    ----------------------

    Sweatin' to rhe Oldies!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountie View Post
    Do you have rotation on your control? If so, you should be able to rotate your WCS to the slant angle of the window and then select G18/G19 to mill the sides.
    That does sound interesting. I'll have to look in the manual when I get home tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Why??
    If you have 1,000 of them to do, why not find a shop with a CAD/CAM program and pay them $100 to write a quick program for you? It would take them 15 minutes tops.
    Not to mention finding one with a 4th axis (or 5th if we're wishing) who will have cycle times less than 10% what a 3axis will do, have them run 'em, scrape a little off the top, and make money.

    edit-again: or a horizontal with a live pallet rotation axis. That'd run gangbusters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Booze Daily View Post
    I learn better by doing stuff and seeing what works and what doesn't. I've done a lot of medical work over the years and I've seen some really weird geometry.

    I'm also probably one of the laziest SOB's you'll ever meet, so rather than overthink stuff, I tend to break it down into simple elements.

    I think programming this by hand will really be a good excercise in thinking outside the box.
    I do better by doing as well. In fact, I've had to spend a lot of time on the internet to learn this stuff because, even though I have the factory original manuals, its written in Jenglish...so its not always the easiest to understand. And I even have some programming background in college! These manuals can be very frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post
    Not to mention finding one with a 4th axis (or 5th if we're wishing) who will have cycle times less than 10% what a 3axis will do, have them run 'em, scrape a little off the top, and make money.

    edit-again: or a horizontal with a live pallet rotation axis. That'd run gangbusters.

    I have no clue why you think that a 5x would be in any way quicker than the 3x on this?

    Especially if you are thinking HMC with live 4th. For that to be any differ'n't than this guys 3x, the part would need to be in C/L of the B, and that would be no faster than a 4x vert, and likely slower than this guy tossing it in a vise.

    A 4x would be easier to prog on this part, but his 3x will be quicker part-to-part, run at a cheaper rate, and he can skim his own off the top.


    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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