OD grooving tool choices.

Houndogforever · Apr 1, 2021

I will need to add an OD grooving system to my lathe.

I currently have a single top notch 3 series holder that is is fair condition.
I have maybe 8 threading inserts for that holder.

I have purchased a lay down threading setup.

SO ANYWAY, if you were to purchase a new OD grooving tool, for turning small clip grooves. .031 .047 .062 wide, square bottoms.

I see the on side style with three or four corners, they look pretty cool but I reckon they ain't cheap.

This is low production so cheap is important. Frosts my rice krispies paying $28 for an insert.

THanks for your opinions.

Pete Deal · Apr 1, 2021

I really like ph horn tooling for grooving. They have it all- od, id, end, corner, little, big. PM user “shop supply guru” sells it. Lloyd tool is his company. Great to deal with.

One thing I like about horn is their inserts come 2 at a time. This has been nice for me since I typically only need a few for a job.

A couple of my horn tool holders came off ebay and I got the inserts from lloyd.

Using one of their cartridge end parting tools too.

Tonytn36 · Apr 2, 2021

P.H. HORN is the go to for grooving, but ISCAR PENTA is also an option. They just aren't as consistent. Neither of these options is going to satisfy your "cheap" requirement however.

TeachMePlease · Apr 2, 2021

For the love of all that is holy, it's HORN. PH is for Paul Horn. The company is Horn USA. The website is HORNUSA.COM.

Sorry, pet peeve

I'd say if you've got a top notch holder already, and you want cheap, just keep it and buy the appropriate top notch inserts as you need them. I don't think you're going to find many groovers that aren't $25-$28 per insert.

I personally run a lot of Sandvik groovers to fit their quick change CoroCut 107 series of holders. I'd highly recommend them. But you won't like the price of the holders or the inserts, and the quick change/coolant through feature is useless for your low volume production.

Nerdlinger · Apr 2, 2021

What can a groove tool do that a parting tool can’t? (Unless the groove shape cannot actually be generated with the cutoff.)

For instance, If you have a .095 x .008” CR cutoff and need a .250” wide groove with .030” radius corners is there any reason to NOT just use the cutoff?? I’m not arguing...just asking!

Pete Deal · Apr 2, 2021

Nerdlinger said:
What can a groove tool do that a parting tool can’t? (Unless the groove shape cannot actually be generated with the cutoff.)

For instance, If you have a .095 x .008” CR cutoff and need a .250” wide groove with .030” radius corners is there any reason to NOT just use the cutoff?? I’m not arguing...just asking!

It depends on the job. I have PH Horn grooving and parting tools. I got the one od grooving tool to make some .06" thick washers out of 3/8" stock. I don't want to use my 3mm wide parting tool for this. Also, I had to make some sanitary flange fittings. They have a funky gasket groove. PH Horn had just the thing. On the other hand a little itty bitty grooving tool is not exactly a robust parting tool.

Regarding cheap- I tried that. Two different variants of cheap, as pertains to grooving, and it didn't work. Where it fell down was very often I try to get as much of a clean back chamfer, finish, and length for part-off. Some tools won't do this well. For parting what i opted for was a tool holder with a removable cartridge type end. This way when the thing tears up, it's quite a bit cheaper to fix. This tool is always in the turret, haven't torn it up yet.

CORONA VIRUS · Apr 2, 2021

Nerdlinger said:
What can a groove tool do that a parting tool can’t? (Unless the groove shape cannot actually be generated with the cutoff.)

For instance, If you have a .095 x .008” CR cutoff and need a .250” wide groove with .030” radius corners is there any reason to NOT just use the cutoff?? I’m not arguing...just asking!

He is making very small grooves, down to .031wide. Finishing is better done with a short holder than a tool on a longer blade.

cunaf85 · Apr 2, 2021

Horn offers a ton a grooving solutions. I really think some of the Sandvik stuff is rebranded Horn or vice versa, at least they seem very close. Those groove specs are pretty common I bet Kennametal has Top-Notch inserts that would work fine.

Dan from Oakland · Apr 2, 2021

Nice thing about Topnotch is you can use the NGD inserts when you need a deeper groove.

Mud · Apr 2, 2021

We use almost all Iscar for grooving. $28/insert isn't terrible when they last a long time, but buying 10 and putting 9 in a drawer for a year or several gets old after a dozen or so.. Ebay is helpful there, look what inserts are available and pick a holder to fit the insert.
For real small grooving I bought a Thinbit setup, but haven't used it yet.

Mud · Apr 2, 2021

TeachMePlease said:
For the love of all that is holy, it's HORN. PH is for Paul Horn. The company is Horn USA. The website is HORNUSA.COM.

Sorry, pet peeve

Then you really ought to get them to change their logo. This is where the PH Horn comes from -

DouglasJRizzo · Apr 2, 2021

Houndogforever said:
I will need to add an OD grooving system to my lathe.

I currently have a single top notch 3 series holder that is is fair condition.
I have maybe 8 threading inserts for that holder.

I have purchased a lay down threading setup.

SO ANYWAY, if you were to purchase a new OD grooving tool, for turning small clip grooves. .031 .047 .062 wide, square bottoms.

I see the on side style with three or four corners, they look pretty cool but I reckon they ain't cheap.

This is low production so cheap is important. Frosts my rice krispies paying $28 for an insert.

THanks for your opinions.

For the really small stuff, I like Kaiser Thinbit. Great support, great products.

Houndogforever · Apr 2, 2021

I make small things. Not tiny things, but hold in one hand or even hold a few in one hand.
So one part I will be doing is a 1/2" shaft with a .031 (?) E clip groove.
Another is a 5/8 E-clip groove, about .042 wide I think.

Then there is the random thread relief on some 5/16-24 threads.

Brass do-hicky made out of 5/8 hex brass.

So yeah, not part off blade category.

I looked up some of those fancy 3, 4 and 5 point star grooving tools. Inserts are $45 each. But if I buy 20, they give you the holder.

I guess I need to stop living in the 90's.
Thanks for the ideas guys.

Kallam · Apr 3, 2021

I use the tpmc groving inserts you can buy them on e-bay cheap
https://www.ebay.com/sch/12576/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=tpmc

Triaged · Apr 3, 2021

Tried to edit my last reply and deleted it... Oops.

Other companies make Top-Notch™ compatible inserts. Tool-Flow, Sumitomo, Kyocera, Iscar, MSC's house brand, etc.

This one looks like a cheap price. No clue about the grade and it's surprisingly listed as made in USA.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/35556471

PeteM · Apr 3, 2021

Thinbit sets often show up used, cheap.

Rob L · Apr 3, 2021

Mud said:
Then you really ought to get them to change their logo. This is where the PH Horn comes from -

View attachment 318068

Shouldn't people be typing 'ph HORN ph' on that basis then?

How about Nikcole grooving tools? They seem to have all the right insert widths and there is a set with a variety of width inserts, oddly they seem to be cheaper in the UK from MSC than they are in the US!

http://niko-nikcole.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6398/2018/03/Minisystems_web_v1d.pdf

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/78680998?fromRR=Y

EDIT : Some potentially good deals on ebay,

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr..._TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=NIKCOLE+grooving

Guest · Apr 3, 2021

I use Kennametal and buy from Carbide Depot, I think I pay $15-$17 each or so, but you must buy a box of 5. $28 sounds like MSC single insert prices. They usually ship promptly and don't charge an arm and a leg for it, of course they are no McMaster.

matoind · Apr 4, 2021

Is the groove against a shoulder or somewhere in the middle. For narrow grooves, I will prefer a solid carbide insert such as X4 inserts from Seco or Penta from iscar. The penta ones have a very limited range if the groove is against a shoulder as there is a bulge in the middle which will hit the shoulder. Seco ones also give a higher depth. But none of them are cheap.

Link for X4 X4 - Shallow Grooves and Parting-off | Secotools.com

Mtndew · Apr 5, 2021

Nerdlinger said:
What can a groove tool do that a parting tool can’t? (Unless the groove shape cannot actually be generated with the cutoff.)

For instance, If you have a .095 x .008” CR cutoff and need a .250” wide groove with .030” radius corners is there any reason to NOT just use the cutoff?? I’m not arguing...just asking!

Precision and finish quality mainly.
And stop arguing!

OD grooving tool choices.

Hot Rolled

Titanium

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Diamond

Stainless

Titanium

Banned

Plastic

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

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Cast Iron

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Guest

Guest

Plastic

Diamond

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