Okuma Genos L3000 with or without live tooling? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    I actually agree with Littlerob1
    You make it sound like that's some kind of anomaly.

    Don't get me wrong, personally I would always prefer a Y. But saying they're useless with just C is stupid. The biggest reason I prefer a Y is ease of Programming. Getting the output from a good CAM package can be tough. I use Mcam and getting the ControlDef, MachineDef and Post processor all doing what you want is more than a pain. It is all very different Maths. Polar interpolation in combination with Cartesian Arc interpolation in combination with Cylindrical interpolation is a lot. But it is there.

    IMHO C alone is much much more rigid, and you can really move some Metal. When you add Y it's a little less, and if it's a compound X-Y then it's even less.

    R

    Also wanted to add Milling Rope Barrels and whatever other weird thread for OD's.

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  3. #22
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    I would say you need a lot of milling on a part to make it worth it to move it from the lathe to a milling machine. If you have a hex and a few holes on the face of the part the lathe will finish before you have the part ready to go in the mill.
    Y axis is nice and I would get Y axis if I got a new live-tool lathe, but you can do a lot without it too, as specified above.

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    @litlerob1 - it wasn't meant to be snarky - just I had taken one side of the question and you somewhat the other side....

    My personal frustration is with things like off center line radial drilled and tapped holes.... Magic cam or interpolation won't fix that...

    Also, various parties over the years have suggested "well, get a tool holder with adjustable Y offset" - I have yet find this mythical beast....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    @litlerob1 - it wasn't meant to be snarky - just I had taken one side of the question and you somewhat the other side....

    My personal frustration is with things like off center line radial drilled and tapped holes.... Magic cam or interpolation won't fix that...

    Also, various parties over the years have suggested "well, get a tool holder with adjustable Y offset" - I have yet find this mythical beast....
    Thanks, my self-esteem is much better now. You are absolutely correct, you can wish, wear a Golden Talisman around your neck and use chicken blood or whatever, the dang tool is not going to come off C/L without a Y axis, that's a guarantee.

    R

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    I love live tooling, sure they are expensive but damn it makes things really nice. Wouldn't buy a machine without it. Also buy the top of the line machines, if you make money from it buy the best. Having the ability to do face and side milling in one operation and line up perfectly is great. Using it just for milling operation with jigs makes it easy, if you do alot of fixture work they are great just as a milling machine, get the live tailstock, they make life easy. Don't get the upgraded spindle power, the autoswitching makes life easy and cuts like a demon. I always think machinery space costs money so two of something takes up more space. A basic live tool machine with y axis, live tailstock isn't that expensive (to me) and they discount harder with the top of the line than with the bottom, talking like 20%. Don't like sub spindle unless you have the work for it, ie...not a job shop. Dual turrets makes things complicated and then you have to have someone specifically trained with it. Keep things simple. My 2 cents.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Thanks, my self-esteem is much better now. You are absolutely correct, you can wish, wear a Golden Talisman around your neck and use chicken blood or whatever, the dang tool is not going to come off C/L without a Y axis, that's a guarantee.

    R

    You haven't met Bob have you. Bob will find a way. Most likely by accident, and involving calling you're friendly service guy, but he will find a way to get that tool off center.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iMillJoe View Post
    You haven't met Bob have you. Bob will find a way. Most likely by accident, and involving calling you're friendly service guy, but he will find a way to get that tool off center.
    Oh I know him, he goes by many names and I'm pretty sure he gets facial un-recognition surgery. He is in all shops. He just isn't allowed to play with some toys. Funny thing I bet if he had a key, one day you would get to work, and he would be there.......????

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    Same guy that thought one of these was made out of paper ??????



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    We have 6 Genos lathes and 16 LB3000 MYW. They are all incredible machines. Our Genos have produced north of a million parts over the last 7 years and are holding up well. Are they an LB? Nope. But for the price, they have been brilliant and outperformed anything in its class that we have tried.

    As for live tooling, it is a straight forward math problem to determine the time to perform the op on the machine vs. taking it to another machine and do it there. Sometimes it makes sense to do it on the machine, other times it does not. However, the price to purchase a replacement live tool holder can be irrelevant if the time savings is there. Only you can make that calculation.

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    The Genos 1000 series only came out within the last year.
    They're a LOT more $$$ than the previous Genos 100 series.

    I really don't know why some brands bother with having an "entry level" line that isn't entry price at all.

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    A Y axis along with milling is nice, but rigidity seems to be the trade off most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip_maker View Post
    A Y axis along with milling is nice, but rigidity seems to be the trade off most of the time.
    Good observation but more than rigidity, is growth. When adding y axis and a sub spindle, basically you have two lathes with a big castings in between. These machines grow differently and can be harder to use than standard lathes when turning tolerance is tight.

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    If I ever get to needing a machine like that, I'll remember to spring for the scales!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KScottC View Post
    .....As for live tooling, it is a straight forward math problem to determine the time to perform the op on the machine vs. taking it to another machine and do it there. .....
    It's not just about time savings. Quality considerations can play a big part in determining the justification for a live tooled lathe with or without Y axis as determined by the work to be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    It's not just about time savings. Quality considerations can play a big part in determining the justification for a live tooled lathe with or without Y axis as determined by the work to be done.
    Pick off, alignment, Turned features with Milled features, deep holes on center, 2nd op holding strategy. I think there are about a Million other considerations.

    R

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    And of course, completeness of automation -> can it spit out a bar's worth of complete parts without needing any tending? (This requires the process runs well enough you can turn your back on it....)

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  21. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    And of course, completeness of automation -> can it spit out a bar's worth of complete parts without needing any tending? (This requires the process runs well enough you can turn your back on it....)
    It really does take some significant time (sometimes). But going and fucking around with other stuff while 1 Machine is spitting out good ones, even if it's only for 10 hours, is not quantifyable IMO.

    R


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