Okuma MB4000-H

Unahorn · Mar 21, 2016

Since we are checking out new horizontals for the shop. Anyone have experiences with Okuma MB4000-H? How reliable are they? Is the Matrix tool changer reliable? Have you ran one with a fastems connected?

ewlsey · Mar 21, 2016

Ran an MB-5000 when they first came out. It was OK for cheaper aluminum only mill. The matrix tool changer was a huge POS and I would run away from it. Stick to the 60 tool drum. They have good specs for spindle RPM and power, rapids, and pallet change time. The control is nice if you are used to Okuma. If you are a Fanuc guy it might take a while to warm up to it.

The MB machines are a good compromise if you run aluminum or other non-ferrous materials and you can't afford a Makino.

Edster · Mar 21, 2016

Mine mills steel just fine.

I have a 64 tool chain, no experience with the larger tool changers. They have a 6 pallet pool option that's reasonably priced.

The MA series are heavier mills, the MB's are a little quicker and cheaper. Pick whats more important to you.

These are one of Okuma's affordable excellence machines. Compairable to DMG Mori's NHX4000 machines. Can't go wrong for the price IMO.

Jashley73 · Mar 21, 2016

Not to mention they sit on 3 points, and you don't need to pour some expensive slab to sit them on... (I know the MA-H series machines sit on 3-points. I believe the MB-H series do too, correct Edster?)

Edster · Mar 21, 2016

The MB's are three point too, but you should bolt them down. They come with all the hardware to bolt the two feet under the column to the floor.

mkd · Mar 22, 2016

Okumas in this class are gear drive rotary, IIRC.

Others are direct drive (mori/Makino) so it depends what is imp to you.

Mori I ran was pretty cool; rotary was so fast it would throw the coolant off. :drool5:

Edster · Mar 22, 2016

mkd said:
Okumas in this class are gear drive rotary, IIRC.

Others are direct drive (mori/Makino) so it depends what is imp to you.

Mori I ran was pretty cool; rotary was so fast it would throw the coolant off.

The MB is gear drive with an absolute encoder on the B axis.

Other Brother · Mar 23, 2016

I am working on another MB4000 B-axis this week that was crashed and broke the pallet retention knobs. These machines are pretty reliable unless the 3 foot tall tombstone is rapid traveled into the spindle. This machine has been wrecked bad 3 times now, the last time the tombstone took out the door and window. The brake looks good Edster, lol. Should have this one back running tomorrow as the parts were Q24'd from Japan.

I have also installed one with a Fastems system and the customer loves it. There is a few modifications to use a Fastems system, remove the door on the pallet loading end of machine and a few guarding alterations. We work with Fastems on the interface.

The matrix magazine is manufactured by Mori. If you go with the matrix magazine you will want to get a 3 piece alignment tool to set up the trees and the tool changer. The matrix system seems reliable after getting it set up correctly.

Customers love these machines but I don't run them, I just repair them after an oops.

Daryl

2outof3 · Mar 23, 2016

Other Brother said:
I am working on another MB4000 B-axis this week that was crashed and broke the pallet retention knobs. These machines are pretty reliable unless the 3 foot tall tombstone is rapid traveled into the spindle. This machine has been wrecked bad 3 times now, the last time the tombstone took out the door and window. The brake looks good Edster, lol. Should have this one back running tomorrow as the parts were Q24'd from Japan.

I have also installed one with a Fastems system and the customer loves it. There is a few modifications to use a Fastems system, remove the door on the pallet loading end of machine and a few guarding alterations. We work with Fastems on the interface.

The matrix magazine is manufactured by Mori. If you go with the matrix magazine you will want to get a 3 piece alignment tool to set up the trees and the tool changer. The matrix system seems reliable after getting it set up correctly.

Customers love these machines but I don't run them, I just repair them after an oops.

Daryl

Just so it is clear. The company named Mori that makes the tool changer is not related to DMG Mori or the old Mori Seiki.

Other Brother · Mar 23, 2016

I did not know that. I just knew what the tag said on the sheet metal. Thanks!

2outof3 · Mar 23, 2016

Other Brother said:
I did not know that. I just knew what the tag said on the sheet metal. Thanks!

No problem. We sold the first MB-400H when they first were brought in with that changer. We did a search to see what it would cost for Okuma Japan to supply the machines without any changer allowing us to add the Mori changers by capacity size as needed.

Mtndew · Mar 24, 2016

Other Brother said:
These machines are pretty reliable unless the 3 foot tall tombstone is rapid traveled into the spindle.

To quote Luke Skywalker "What a piece of junk!"

I'd like to see a machine that CAN keep going after a crash like that lol.

Milland · Mar 24, 2016

Mtndew said:
To quote Luke Skywalker "What a piece of junk!"

I'd like to see a machine that CAN keep going after a crash like that lol.

I'm a little surprised you can't set up a Z value that's a "don't rapid from here in" for a tool. Is that possible or just rarely used?

Captdave · Mar 24, 2016

We looked at that same machine a little over a year ago and have revisited it again this year, the price is down about 10% from last year primarily due to the exchange rate. If your seriously looking to buy now is a good time.

dstryr · Mar 24, 2016

Milland said:
I'm a little surprised you can't set up a Z value that's a "don't rapid from here in" for a tool. Is that possible or just rarely used?

99% of the crashes I've heard about on horizontals is taking the spindle thru the tombstone ... not rapid the front face into the front of the tombstone.

Jashley73 · Mar 24, 2016

What is amazing, is the number of horrific crashes that DON'T destroy the machines. We had several instances where pallets would get knocked off, and we'd reclamp the pallets, hit GO, and everything would be fine.. :scratchchin:

Make no mistake though - have more than a couple of those doozies, and you number WILL come up...

JNieman · Mar 24, 2016

We have one being installed right now with a 6 pallet pool and the 130-something tool magazine, I believe. After being used to being around the 600mm pallets, the 400mm ones look so cute.

dstryr · Mar 24, 2016

Jashley73 said:
What is amazing, is the number of horrific crashes that DON'T destroy the machines. We had several instances where pallets would get knocked off, and we'd reclamp the pallets, hit GO, and everything would be fine..

Make no mistake though - have more than a couple of those doozies, and you number WILL come up...

"Everything would be fine"

What kind of parts are you doing and what are the tolerances?
If you had a part that was the full length of the y travel and you cut the face with the bottom of a tool at B0. Then rotate to B90 or B270 and put a series of bores in along the Y axis. How different would these holes measure from top to bottom?

Maybe your parts are small enough the operator just comps this out... or are you using probing?

cnctoolcat · Mar 24, 2016

What kind of moron runs the spindle into a tombstone at wide-open rapids? :nutter:

A machine that costs the better part of a half million dollars or more deserves a little more attention and care than that.

When I read about this kind of shit I wonder how so many machine shops can even exist? And how so many can get so big and make so much money for the owners?? Good salesmen I guess...

ToolCat

mkd · Mar 24, 2016

shop I worked in making high end Motorcyle wheels and brakes used to crash their Mazak Hori's almost nightly.
(positive TLO being zero).
reset and continue.
amazed...

Okuma MB4000-H

Aluminum

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Titanium

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Stainless

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Hot Rolled

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Titanium

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Titanium

Diamond

Titanium

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

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