Old(er) Haas TM1/2 w/o Enclosure Safety
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  1. #1
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    Default Old(er) Haas TM1/2 w/o Enclosure Safety

    Hi Everyone!

    I am looking at used TM1's (w/ tool changer) for our tool room area. I like the ones with the open enclosure (oxymoron?) but are they more dangerous than one might think? I imagine at the least coolant could spray all over. Any opinions on the tradeoff between safety and user-friendliness?

    Thanks!

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    I help the students run an open TM-1 at the high school. The former shop teacher ditched flood coolant due to the mess and went with a Fogbuster mist unit. The biggest issue is chip management. When running to its capabilities, chips end up far and wide all over the floor. One of the parent volunteers added some shields, but that did not help much. If I had to pay wages for someone to sweep the floor, I'd want an enclosure. The mist unit can also cause air quality problems, but that would have been about the same with flood, most likely. Fortunately, in our climate we can open the windows and doors pretty much all year round.

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    We have two TM1's here. One has an enclosure designed and built here. Keeps the coolant in, mostly. No safety door switches. The other one has no enclosure, and we use either dry or with light mist (no toolchanger there). We had a visit from OSHA, and they pointed out pinch points that were dangerous, so we had to build a cage that stopped the machine (light curtain) when the area was violated. I didn't agree that it was an issue, because our Prototrak didn't get the same citation. So... pinch points. And chips still go everywhere. Haas chose to keep the spindle at 4k, since there was no enclosure, and limited the rapids for the same reason. I've bumped them up after the cage was built.

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    We've had one of the "open" TM1's since 2008. I don't like it. Safety wise it's not bad. It's quite a long reach from the front of the machine to the spindle, so you aren't likely to just stick your hand in it. The table does overhang the chip/coolant tray at the extreme's of X. Our biggest complaint is that it is s l o w. Spindle is 4000 rpm on ours. Most of our parts and fixtures are on the small side so they seem to take forever. It also seems a bit floppy compared to the VF machines.
    To address the coolant issue they aren't too bad as far as spraying coolant all over. You just need to pay attention to where you point the coolant. On the part in front of or behind the tool not directly on the tool helps. We did add an aluminum angle and plastic "fence" around the front and sides of the coolant pan up to about the bottom of the table. That does help keep the coolant off of the floor.

    Having said that, it might be a good fit for you, but I would rather have a VF2.

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    first off I would get a real machining center unless you are making small aluminum parts. Second, I would NEVER buy a machine without an enclosure, toolchanger and flood coolant.

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    I started out with an old Mori VMC that just had a table guard about a foot above table height. I learned to feed aluminum hard enough that the chips didn't leave the table. Face mill threw shit everywhere though. A day of production was probably 5 gallons of coolant at best.

    I really, really liked that machine for onesy twosy stuff and anything big/long/clumsy. I once ran a job prepping a bunch of steel tubes for welding into benches. That machine was perfect for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Ward View Post
    Our biggest complaint is that it is s l o w..
    If you look for it and are inclined to do so, there are parameters you can change that give you 6k RPM and 400 ipm rapids.

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    I ran one of these for a few years, it wasn't too bad in my opinion, yes it was a little slower than a VF/VM and the mess was a bit much if we was doing a lot of batch work on it but in all honesty it was great for long/big/awkward work but it always got the job done and we could leave the apprentice on it without much trouble

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    Quote Originally Posted by norb View Post
    first off I would get a real machining center unless you are making small aluminum parts. Second, I would NEVER buy a machine without an enclosure, toolchanger and flood coolant.
    Heck no, if you're making small aluminum parts buy a Brother or Robodrill... But yeah, there is a reason the new ones have an enclosure. We had a TM-1 with a tool changer and without an enclosure. I was happy when we got it, and happier when we sold it.

    There's no doubt places where TM's are a good fit and maybe your tool room is one of those, but most people would be way better off with a VMC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beege View Post
    We have two TM1's here. One has an enclosure designed and built here.
    Any chance you could post a picture of the enclosure here? Thanks.

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    I had one for 19 years.
    Yes they make a mess,they are slow,it was very nice to have a open machine.
    I made a lot of money with mine $500-$600 k with it and have nothing but praise for it.
    Deadly accurate even after 19 years.
    If I had the room I would have kept it and I miss it.
    My friend bought a TM-2P and 6000 rpm with HAAS's 7.5 hp. I thought 4000rpm was trying at times but 6000 is a joke.
    Expect at least 5 second chip to chip times.


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