Old Fanuc 10t start reject alarm
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    Default Old Fanuc 10t start reject alarm

    Hi, just wondering if anyone can shed some light on my problem.
    I have bought an old but working Cnc lathe. Itís a Takisawa TC-3 with fanuc 10t controller. It was working fine prior to delivery, but now it will not take or execute commands in MDI or run a program in auto mode.

    All manual functions work (chuck open/close, tailstock quill, chuck will spin up, tool turret rotate etc)

    It did have a computer (rs232 cabled) with it and a chip conveyer that are no longer connected. Itís just the machine standing alone.(doesnít appear to have a tape reader)

    If the controller has had parameters changed for dnc communication, will the machine look for the connection and throw an alarm when trying to start a program? Just seems weird, like a door closed or chuck not closed switch but these all seem fine? (No door switch can be found)

    It seems very close to running, Any ideas would be greatly appreciated to get this old girl turning again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davefurney View Post
    Hi, just wondering if anyone can shed some light on my problem.
    I have bought an old but working Cnc lathe. It’s a Takisawa TC-3 with fanuc 10t controller. It was working fine prior to delivery, but now it will not take or execute commands in MDI or run a program in auto mode.

    All manual functions work (chuck open/close, tailstock quill, chuck will spin up, tool turret rotate etc)

    It did have a computer (rs232 cabled) with it and a chip conveyer that are no longer connected. It’s just the machine standing alone.(doesn’t appear to have a tape reader)

    If the controller has had parameters changed for dnc communication, will the machine look for the connection and throw an alarm when trying to start a program? Just seems weird, like a door closed or chuck not closed switch but these all seem fine? (No door switch can be found)

    It seems very close to running, Any ideas would be greatly appreciated to get this old girl turning again
    Hello Dave,
    The computer not being connected, will have nothing to do with the issue. If the control has a TAPE Mode available via the Mode Selection Switch (EDIT, AUTO, TAPE, etc.), then the DNC parameter change is likely not to have anything to do with the issue. or parameters changed for DNC Comms will have nothing to do with the issue.

    This alarm can be a real head scratcher, as Start Reject alarm is a rather generic alarm with this control and will be raised by anything that is related with a condition that must exist to execute a command, be it via Auto, DNC, or MDI. Things like a Door Close switch that supplies an Input to the PLC is typical of an issue that will raise this alarm, rather than a MTB's defined alarm for such an event.

    You need to check if there are any peripheral devices that were once attached and are now not; such as a bar feeder. Anything that may need to supply an input to the PMC.

    If nothing is obvious, you will almost certainly have to consult the PMC Ladder program. If you have a hard copy of the program, track the logic path of the Cycle Start button press when Auto Mode is selected; this should show you the Inputs that have to be present to execute a program. You could also look at the area in the PMC program that deals with raising errors and back track from there to see what conditions will make the final error rung test true.

    Regards,

    Bill

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    My guess at it is....

    Do you have a quill interlock switch on the control panel? If no I'd peck around on the control to see if I could find a "settings page" with soft switches. Some have a quill stroke switch inside the tailstock body too. Seems something interlock to me?

    Brent
    Last edited by yardbird; 10-07-2019 at 07:13 AM.

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    If the chip conveyer was controlled from the operator panel or via m-code, rather than just a starter switch on the conveyer itself, that may be the interlock.

    Maybe double check the obvious stuff like lube oil level as well, in case the MTB didn't write specific alarms for stuff like that.

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    Thank you very much for you advice Bill, I will check the previous peripheral devices are connected first, then if no luck Iíll have to try and trace it on the PMC ladder (I havenít done this for probably 15 years so itís be practically a new thing to learn from scratch)
    Thanks for the help, at least I have a direction to head toward to find the problem.

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    Thanks Brent, the quill advance/retract buttons are functioning normally however havenít noticed any lights to indicate positions but thanks for the prompt. I will check that first thing.

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    I think the chip conveyor was an old type with a switch on the motor. Havenít seen any switches on the control for it.

    I filled the lube oil today, rebooted it but no change.
    Donít think itís chuck sensors as open close and manual spin up to revs all works.
    I guess that leaves door lock (that I cant find) and tailstock interlocks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davefurney View Post
    I think the chip conveyor was an old type with a switch on the motor. Havenít seen any switches on the control for it.

    I filled the lube oil today, rebooted it but no change.
    Donít think itís chuck sensors as open close and manual spin up to revs all works.
    I guess that leaves door lock (that I cant find) and tailstock interlocks
    close chuck Goto MDI type in g97s500m03 hit start
    if that doesnt work
    open chuck goto mdi type in g97soom03 if that works then your chuck interchange switch is flipped to the wrong position
    alot of machines in manual the chuck will spin open or close in MDI they wont.
    Also I am asumming you took the machine home? the machine wont run in auto until you have taken it home
    like mentioned above chip conveyor wont make any difference nor will rs232

    oil, door chucks positions, not homing the machine usually cause what your experiencing.
    other thing to do is manually pump the oil pump to get pressure in there as your oil pump motor may be bad.

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    Our old Hitachi Seiki CNC lathe with a Fanuc 10T controller will not function in auto mode without MDI code to send the tailstock quill home after powering it up. I think it was M26? Can't remember off hand. Just sending the quill home with the switches doesn't satisfy the machine though. Had to MDI it.

    Another thing to try is to MDI Tool 1 to teach the control the turret location. Some older Fanuc controlled machines needed that as well before they would run. G0 T0100.

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    I have a mill with a 10M that had a real head scratcher series of alarms. Turned out to be a partially blown Daito fuse on the main control board. The fuse was passing voltage, but no real current. That problem happened right after a move.

    I think there's several versions of the Fanuc 10 and they're drastically different from one another. I think mine is a 10MD. It has the fiber optical drive thingies.

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    What Garwood said, or a missing ready signal from the missing chip conveyor. Check the fuses on the power supply as well. If my mill has a tool changer error I get a start rejected message as well.

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    Thanks Delw
    I did play with the chuck and key interlock with no success, I can switch that and create a condition where the chuck wonít spin up in manual, then switch it and it will spin up so I thought I had that sorted. Iíll do it again as you describe.

    Yep zero returned each time, even re-zeroed it during attempts to run in auto.

    Thanks for the tip on manual pump the oil pump. The lathe was drained of all fluids for transport and maybe hasnít primed up.

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    Thanks Garwood, nice tip , I will check these for sure.

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    Thank you Philabuster, I will do this first thing.
    Only problem might be that I get another start reject message when I try to MDI it as I canít get it to take any command through MDI at all.

    I did try to MDI tool 1 but got start reject again.
    I manually rotated to Tool 1 and tried but got start reject again.

    Question: when you enter commands in MDI
    I type for example G97M03S500, input, start

    Is this correct or do I need an ďend of blockĒ button push? The Fanuc I use to use weíre newer than this one?
    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davefurney View Post
    Thank you Philabuster, I will do this first thing.
    Only problem might be that I get another start reject message when I try to MDI it as I can’t get it to take any command through MDI at all.

    I did try to MDI tool 1 but got start reject again.
    I manually rotated to Tool 1 and tried but got start reject again.

    Question: when you enter commands in MDI
    I type for example G97M03S500, input, start

    Is this correct or do I need an “end of block” button push? The Fanuc I use to use we’re newer than this one?
    Thanks
    Yes, you definitely need an end of block semicolon ; for MDI to function on the older controls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philabuster View Post
    Yes, you definitely need an end of block semicolon ; for MDI to function on the older controls.
    Never used a 10, but FWIW our 1997 OT-C does not use a eob semicolon in mdi, while all our i series Fanucs do.

    Assume this is a side effect of whether or not it can do multi line mdi commands?

    On the OT-C, you also have to enter each code individually in mdi, i.e.

    G97 > INPUT
    S500 > INPUT
    M3 > INPUT

    vs. the i series, G97S500M3; > INSERT

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    Never used a 10, but FWIW our 1997 OT-C does not use a eob semicolon in mdi, while all our i series Fanucs do.

    Assume this is a side effect of whether or not it can do multi line mdi commands?

    On the OT-C, you also have to enter each code individually in mdi, i.e.

    G97 > INPUT
    S500 > INPUT
    M3 > INPUT

    vs. the i series, G97S500M3; > INSERT
    Hello Gregor,

    The FS10 control came equipped with either a 9" mono CRT Screen , or 14" Colour Screen. Both versions used the same method of registering Command Blocks in MDI, as you have shown with your last example above.

    Regards,

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelw View Post
    Hello Gregor,

    The FS10 control came equipped with either a 9" mono CRT Screen , or 14" Colour Screen. Both versions used the same method of registering Command Blocks in MDI, as you have shown with your last example above.

    Regards,

    Bill
    Hi Bill,

    OT in question is a 9" colour screen also, and not really old ('97, as I said). You can enter a complete block in edit mode, just not in mdi.

    Is this just a limitation of the O series, or a parameter setting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    Hi Bill,

    OT in question is a 9" colour screen also, and not really old ('97, as I said). You can enter a complete block in edit mode, just not in mdi.

    Is this just a limitation of the O series, or a parameter setting?
    Hello Gregor,
    The early O Series control was introduced as a bargain basement control. I don't think Fanuc realized just how popular this control would be. In terms development of the FS"O" control the circa 97 was reasonably late and a big improvement over the first versions. However, the basic operating features remained and uncontrolled by parameter setting.

    The 14" screen version of the FS10 control was a pig in Edit Mode. Everything was dog slow, right down to simple navigation through the program using the Cursor Buttons.

    Regards,

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelw View Post
    .....The 14" screen version of the FS10 control was a pig in Edit Mode. Everything was dog slow, right down to simple navigation through the program using the Cursor Buttons. .....
    A regular rocket compared to the F12M when equipped with the color CRT and 2mB memory. When you told that to do a forward search for something near the end of a 1+mB program you had enough time to walk to the coffee machine, peruse the choices, dig around in your pocket lint for the coins, wait for it to "brew" the cup, blow on it a couple times to cool it some, then walk back to the machine and it would probably be done.


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