Orange vs Chick vice

Hey guys

I am looking at purchasing a new vice ( Im in the UK so that's how we spell it )

Narrowed it down to either Chick or Orange. I like the versality of the Orange more than the Chick, due to the orange being able to swap bewtween single and double station. Also means I could run two and know heights etc would all be the same.

However I like the system of the one lok single vice and that the fixed jaw is at the front.

Can the Orange vice be used with the fixed jaw at the front?

Any thought or personal opinions on either would be great. If you have used or have both then even better.

Thanks

If you are in the UK...check out Ceratizit and get some vices from them.
They are Schunks but a lot cheaper if you buy them from Ceratizit.
They are made by Gressel though.

Tried all different kinds of vises from Gerardi to Orange Vise.

I do one offs and small series so need to quickly change between setups.

Gerardi is good. But chips get everywhere! (with their standard vises) and is a pita because chips get into the adjustment rail.
Price is good for the quality!

With the Orange Vises I had some quality issues with jaw lift. I received replacement parts from them and it was a bit better but not good enough. The dovetail system for soft jaws will bend. I always had to set a higher Z offset to compensate for the jaw lift. The vise bodies also aren't grinded which leaves marks on the workpiece. I saw a post on this forum they had issues with the delivery of new grinding wheels? I think that it is solved now. I didn't bothered with it and sold both vices.
Chips get everywhere and cost me a lot of time to adjust vise jaw position (to change between min and max opening). They will get underneath the vise jaw bodies.
Good point is that they are big and heavy! And the Delta pallet system for their standard vises works pretty good. Very easy and fast to swap pallets and let the spindle run.
Service from them is good. And Eric is also on this forum. I think the products did improve a lot since 1,5 years ago!

Lang. Fine for first OP work. Bad repeatability for second OP work. Unless you want to probe every part.

Ceratizit/WNT (which is a Gressel vise) best I have! Great chip/coolant management. No need to probe for second OP work. Don't have to buy second set of vise jaws for mounting soft jaws (like Lang). Almost every vise with a spindle/screw got jaw lift but these repeat the best (and got around 0,01mm jawlift). It's also a ballscrew design instead of a standard screw.

Chick is also good.

But for the amount of money you are going to spend I would check out Gerardi, Chick or Ceratizit/WNT (Schunk/Gressel) if you are at this side of the pond.
My personal preference are the ones from Gressel.

Thanks for the reply bud.

Funnily enough, just sent off the credit application form this morning for Ceratizit. Will check out Schunk vices. Interesting to read about your experience with the orange vices.

Originally I was looking at Gerardi, but had a few people say they didnt get on with them for the reason you said and others issues. So started to look at the orange and Chicks.

At the end of the day anything is going to be better than the hump of junk Im currently using!!!

tcncj said:

If you are in the UK...check out Ceratizit and get some vices from them.
They are Schunks but a lot cheaper if you buy them from Ceratizit.
They are made by Gressel though.

Tried all different kinds of vises from Gerardi to Orange Vise.

I do one offs and small series so need to quickly change between setups.

Gerardi is good. But chips get everywhere! (with their standard vises) and is a pita because chips get into the adjustment rail.
Price is good for the quality!

With the Orange Vises I had some quality issues with jaw lift. I received replacement parts from them and it was a bit better but not good enough. The dovetail system for soft jaws will bend. I always had to set a higher Z offset to compensate for the jaw lift. The vise bodies also aren't grinded which leaves marks on the workpiece. I saw a post on this forum they had issues with the delivery of new grinding wheels? I think that it is solved now. I didn't bothered with it and sold both vices.
Chips get everywhere and cost me a lot of time to adjust vise jaw position (to change between min and max opening). They will get underneath the vise jaw bodies.
Good point is that they are big and heavy! And the Delta pallet system for their standard vises works pretty good. Very easy and fast to swap pallets and let the spindle run.
Service from them is good. And Eric is also on this forum. I think the products did improve a lot since 1,5 years ago!

Lang. Fine for first OP work. Bad repeatability for second OP work. Unless you want to probe every part.

Ceratizit/WNT (which is a Gressel vise) best I have! Great chip/coolant management. No need to probe for second OP work. Don't have to buy second set of vise jaws for mounting soft jaws (like Lang). Almost every vise with a spindle/screw got jaw lift but these repeat the best (and got around 0,01mm jawlift). It's also a ballscrew design instead of a standard screw.

Chick is also good.

But for the amount of money you are going to spend I would check out Gerardi, Chick or Ceratizit/WNT (Schunk/Gressel) if you are at this side of the pond.
My personal preference are the ones from Gressel.

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danpayneuk said:

Hey guys

I am looking at purchasing a new vice ( Im in the UK so that's how we spell it )

Narrowed it down to either Chick or Orange. I like the versality of the Orange more than the Chick, due to the orange being able to swap bewtween single and double station. Also means I could run two and know heights etc would all be the same.

However I like the system of the one lok single vice and that the fixed jaw is at the front.

Can the Orange vice be used with the fixed jaw at the front?

Any thought or personal opinions on either would be great. If you have used or have both then even better.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Yes, the Orange can be set up with the fixed jaw to the front. I prefer it that way on a VMC.
I use both brands.
It's very nice to be able to set the Orange as a double. I use both the Carve-Smart and conventional jaws. I've had a couple of jobs that I had to use conventional, the Carve-Smart would not hold quite as well - it was a very shallow job needing to be held tight near the top of the jaws. The versatility of the Orange is unmatched in my experience.

The solid bed of the Chick means you never have to clean the chips. The Chick is faster to change jaws, and very nice for repeatability. I use soft jaws for many jobs in these, and speed of setup doing that is great.

Both systems are better quality than my personal experience with Kurt vises made since 2008 or so.
good luck!

Hey Mike

Thanks for that.

Guessing you don't have a preference assuming it would depend on the job to which you would prefer.

As you say both systems seems good.

eaglemike said:

Yes, the Orange can be set up with the fixed jaw to the front. I prefer it that way on a VMC.
I use both brands.
It's very nice to be able to set the Orange as a double. I use both the Carve-Smart and conventional jaws. I've had a couple of jobs that I had to use conventional, the Carve-Smart would not hold quite as well - it was a very shallow job needing to be held tight near the top of the jaws. The versatility of the Orange is unmatched in my experience.

The solid bed of the Chick means you never have to clean the chips. The Chick is faster to change jaws, and very nice for repeatability. I use soft jaws for many jobs in these, and speed of setup doing that is great.

Both systems are better quality than my personal experience with Kurt vises made since 2008 or so.
good luck!

Click to expand...

I think they are both very good options.

Orange is my preference though, for three main reasons:

1- The support from Eric is second to none. My first machine was a Robodrill with a *prototype* Orange single station on it. Being 100% clueless, I emailed Eric and asked some dumb questions. Once he figured out that it was a prototype, he shipped me basically every part required to rebuild the thing from scratch for free, with all the latest/greatest parts. I also have an older Chick OneLok, and Chick support was nowhere near as impressive, to the point where I just didn't bother going through it and getting her up and running again.

2- Versatility. The orange goes from single to double station in about 5 minutes. From a vise to a pallet carrier in the same amount of time. You can have massive soft jaws that take up the whole carrier system, or the quick change dovetail jaws in a variety of styles. Or use your old 6" standard Kurt jaws. There isn't a more versatile vise on the market.

3- Cost of consumables. My biggest gripe with Chick is the consumable cost is very very high. A set of soft jaws is $80-$100, and while you could theoretically set up to make your own, their geometry is quite complicated and it would be a decent project requiring some tricky tools. I can buy CarveSmart jaw stock for not much more than the raw aluminum cost, or bang a few sets out in 30 minutes. Build your own carriers or Delta pallets if you want.

danpayneuk said:

Hey Mike

Thanks for that.

Guessing you don't have a preference assuming it would depend on the job to which you would prefer.

As you say both systems seems good.

Click to expand...

It's a close call, but the Orange would be my choice if I had to choose only one, and could afford it. For some of my Brother machines I had to either make or buy a riser to use the Orange vises, which can add to the price. As noted, the support is really good. I've had pretty good support from Chick as well, maybe I was lucky.

The cost of jaws etc for the chicks is rather off putting. more food for thought.

gkoenig said:

I think they are both very good options.

Orange is my preference though, for three main reasons:

1- The support from Eric is second to none. My first machine was a Robodrill with a *prototype* Orange single station on it. Being 100% clueless, I emailed Eric and asked some dumb questions. Once he figured out that it was a prototype, he shipped me basically every part required to rebuild the thing from scratch for free, with all the latest/greatest parts. I also have an older Chick OneLok, and Chick support was nowhere near as impressive, to the point where I just didn't bother going through it and getting her up and running again.

2- Versatility. The orange goes from single to double station in about 5 minutes. From a vise to a pallet carrier in the same amount of time. You can have massive soft jaws that take up the whole carrier system, or the quick change dovetail jaws in a variety of styles. Or use your old 6" standard Kurt jaws. There isn't a more versatile vise on the market.

3- Cost of consumables. My biggest gripe with Chick is the consumable cost is very very high. A set of soft jaws is $80-$100, and while you could theoretically set up to make your own, their geometry is quite complicated and it would be a decent project requiring some tricky tools. I can buy CarveSmart jaw stock for not much more than the raw aluminum cost, or bang a few sets out in 30 minutes. Build your own carriers or Delta pallets if you want.

Click to expand...

We have Kurt and Orange. For job shop work, I do find the Orange vises to be a bit aggravating due to having to move the moving jaw between dovetails to get more/less capacity. Takes longer and can introduce more error due to getting chips in etc. vs just winding it in/out like Kurt. I do feel like Orange is more versatile and more accurate (though our Orange vises are new and the newest any of our Kurts could be is about 7 years). All the tapped holes are frustrating as well, they gather chips and coolant like crazy. Shop made plastic plugs are something I plan to do one day.

Their service is amazing. The six we bought had some rust. Eric sent us all kinds of stuff to make up for the inconvenience of having to stone a few spots on the vises - a few grand worth of jaws, hardware etc.. I’m quite grateful. They are definitely a quality US manufacturer that stands behind their product.

I would definitely go Orange over Kurt; can’t say anything about Orange vs Chick.

Just a comment on tapped holes and chips. My table has 144 tapped holes and I bought nylon setscrews to plug them. Didn’t work out so well they swelled from coolant and the hex sockets stripped out. Next time will be brass, which I used on another machine with great results.

Corks are a quick and dirty solution for open holes, I shove them in, slice the top off with a razor blade, and push them in slightly further so they don't protrude. To remove, just screw a sheetmetal or self tapping screw in and pull. Or dig out with a small pick or unscrew with a small sharp screwdriver. I was going to make plugs also but the corks work so well I haven't bothered. McMaster has a finely incremented selection of sizes. They work well to fill the open hexes of socket head screws also.

For new, Orange seems like the best. If used is an option, look for old first generation Chick MQL series vises. They are super easy to make jaws for, just a square pocket and a drilled hole is all that's needed. Chick obsoleted them and no longer has tension screws and a few other significant parts, but most other small items interchange with newer models or can be easily shop made. I have 9 6" double vises and love them.

Job Shopper TN said:

All the tapped holes are frustrating as well, they gather chips and coolant like crazy. Shop made plastic plugs are something I plan to do one day.

Click to expand...

I made my first set from Delrin. Delrin will expand (hydroscopic) so became stuck and slotted drive wasn't strong enough to get them out. Now I use AL, but plan to make some from SS303 at some point (let me know if you want me to make extra). I had sent this picture to Orange, suggesting they should make them. I didn't hear back. I love them, they save me so much hassle.



(the short one if for the jaw carriers. The unused side w/ holes collects chips too even being horizontal)

I also need to rectangular plug for the little pool that forms in front of the jaw when using the back position. It's the last annoying spot stuff accumulates. Someday I will get around to designing it.

I don't have much experience outside of Orange, but I'm very happy with them.

CosmosK said:

View attachment 313801

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AME has them if their sizes work for you, even has a little oring. - Hole Plugs | Advanced Machine & Engineering Co.

Nice. Had I known I might have gone with theirs. Mine (left) has really minimal slot, just big enough for a 1/4" blade screwdriver. I'm going to SS303 to reduce galvanic corrosion. I'm trying to leave less AL parts lingering around on the machine table.

They look like a lot of work, what machine do you make them on? Very nice. What price would you sell some for?

garyhlucas said:

Just a comment on tapped holes and chips. My table has 144 tapped holes and I bought nylon setscrews to plug them. Didn’t work out so well they swelled from coolant and the hex sockets stripped out. Next time will be brass, which I used on another machine with great results.

Click to expand...

I went through the EXACT same experience about 12 years ago! Looked like a great idea until there I was, drilling all those plastic set-screws out!

Mud said:

They look like a lot of work, what machine do you make them on? Very nice. What price would you sell some for?

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I was gonna say, I bet I spent way more time on them than A.M.E. did so they must be worth way more right? I make them on a Speedio. I don't have a proper lathe yet. I haven't really thought what they should sell for. Shouldn't be much. I can let you know when I get to making the stainless version. I'm curious what the A.M.E. cost. I have an RFQ in to them.

Hey all

Thanks for all the replies. ALot of Orange users on here then :-)

Be interesting to see what the service is like over here in the UK from their distributor. Hopefully it would be needed but you never know.

Most of the machining we do is for our own parts so either soft jaws or fixtures.

Ive got 2 orange vise "systems" that I got about a year or so ago.

Honestly I friggin love them. It was a pretty easy sell to the people who hold the purse strings that for our application it would save countless hours of setup time.

Rarely do those vises ever leave the table, even for larger plate work, for 2 reasons. 1 reason is that the Oranges can open up wide enough to clamp our vacuum plate directly, without having to clamp to the table. The other reason is, the Oranges open up so wide that its easy to put our "large" plates directly onto the vise. By large I mean like up to 15" on the Y.

Additionally, the delta plates are super helpful. Create a custom fixturing solution for larger batch parts. Easy. You never have to take the dang vise off the table! Unless of course you have plates that are bigger than the capacity of the vises, but still. That is the only reason I ever have to take them off (well and periodically I do clean the tables with a stone)

I will say that I was running a job last week that needed second op done...and I was lazy so instead of changing setups I just used the Mitee Bite jaws. Well those arent precision ground whatsoever so the part was tilting every time I tried to tighten the vise. So I caved and flipped the jaw carriers around and used some properly ground jaws and it worked a treat. You need to make sure to choose the right jaw for the application. So to go from first op with Mitee Bites to second Op with precision ground jaws took about 60 seconds to just flip the jaw carriers 180 degrees. I save so much damn time never having to change jaws, and if I do, theyre the carve smart style quick release ones. Even soft jaws use that system so jaw changeover is basically nil. Just move my mitee bites into position and boom. Done.. I haven't had very much issue with jaw lift...I feel the design speaks for itself with the dovetail. The dovetail system pulls the jaw carrier down into the vise body.


As far as chip management, they are better than the Kurts by a long shot for me anyway. Not particularly hard to clean with a coolant gun or air blast. If all else fails, you can pull the lead screw out in 60 seconds for a deep clean. I have oiled the insides of the lead screw mechanism once but that thing is sealed and there are no bearings which makes disassembly much easier than a Kurt.

I will likely never buy a Kurt vise again.

danpayneuk said:

Hey all

Thanks for all the replies. ALot of Orange users on here then :-)

Be interesting to see what the service is like over here in the UK from their distributor. Hopefully it would be needed but you never know.

Most of the machining we do is for our own parts so either soft jaws or fixtures.

Click to expand...

A fixture isn't like a machine. Unless you get a lemon, you won't need any service. And if it's a lemon then any reputable company or distro will fix it no problem.