Ordered a new speedio for my garage, electrical, PP, question
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  1. #1
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    Default Ordered a new speedio for my garage, electrical, PP, question

    Hi all,

    I'm new here but over the last few months I searched and read every relevant post. This forum contains amazing amount of collective knowledge.

    As I am getting my shop ready for the Speedio S500X1 I am now working on the electrical. I am looking at PhasePerfect 10HP but it seems the 5HP will cover the Speedio requirement as well. I have a 100AMP sub panel in my garage and the recommended breaker for the 10HP is 80AMP! I read here that some people are running the speedio on 50AMP breakers.

    So here are my questions and I hope to get a larger sample size of answers:
    1. What size breaker did you use for the input, 1-phase power?
    2. Which PhaseConverter did you get?
    3. Did you get a bucking transformer? If so are you taking it down to 220V or 208V?
    4. Do you mind describing how you wired it all up?

    If any of you are willing to share photos of the electrical setup, that will be super helpful.Sorry for all the newbie questions.

    Thanks!

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    I'll leave the answers for the PhaseConverter to others as I have 3-phase power supplied by utility, BUT having just installed a Brother Speedio I ended up installing a 230V to 208V transformer per Yamazen technician recommendation. My utility power was running more like 235V and he indicated the risk of alarms on the speedio, so I went ahead and installed the transformer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygur View Post
    I have a 100AMP sub panel in my garage and the recommended breaker for the 10HP is 80AMP! I read here that some people are running the speedio on 50AMP breakers.
    Speedio does not need 50 amps. I can tell you that. I have a pair of HAAS VF2ss that are each on 30 amp fuses that are 6 years old.
    And, I run those machines hard. Never blown a fuse. I don't know the cost difference between the 5hp and 10hp PP's?
    If cost is a factor, and I was a betting man, I would bet you would be fine with the 5hp. The 10 will get you some redundancy.
    You don't need an 80amp service for the 10 to operate. You get out what you put in. It will run on 40amps if that is all you have.
    They rate it at max load. If you don't plan on going after super-alloys with everything the speedio has? You may be over thinking it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    I'll leave the answers for the PhaseConverter to others as I have 3-phase power supplied by utility, BUT having just installed a Brother Speedio I ended up installing a 230V to 208V transformer per Yamazen technician recommendation. My utility power was running more like 235V and he indicated the risk of alarms on the speedio, so I went ahead and installed the transformer.
    Second this. Just go buy the transformers now. Literally every Speedio running on a PhasePerfect/Rotary winds up needing them, and you don't want to be in a scramble during commissioning to get a set so the Yamazen guy can get to work. You'll find them way cheaper online than you ever will at the local electrical house, so buy them now.

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    First, congrats!

    I have personally stalled out the spindle on a 16k Speedio on a 20A breaker! They don't pull much power. Not sure what the high torque pulls in comparison.

    The Phase Perfect inputs are rated for max output load; if you put a 20A breaker on the outlet then you can do that math to figure out what you need in single phase to cover that. They confirmed that for me (I've got the 30hp PP unit but only have a 7.5hp VMC on it so I only sized the input breaker for the single machine).

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    The Brother internal Breaker is 30 AMPS. Match your exterior one to that. 30AMP Breaker is what we recommend.

    Andy

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    My setup at home:

    100A single phase breaker -> 100A disconnect (non-fused) -> 20hp Phase Perfect -> 125A 3-phase subpanel -> 30A 3-phase breaker -> 1KVA bucking transformers (two required) 240V to 208V -> Brother M140X1

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    I don't know much about the Speedio but I do know a little about Phase Perfects and electrons. Most single phase is 240 volt so a buck transformer is definitely a good idea....unless the Speedio has a transformer in it that can be retapped? Your single phase breaker will need to be larger than your 3 phase breaker unless for some reason the 3 phase breaker is oversized. Basically you have 3 hot legs carrying the same wattage and voltage vs 2 hot legs carrying the same wattage and voltage, therefor the current must be different P = V x I.

    Does the Speedio have a true regenerative spindle drive? (I think it does have a regen drive) If so, it has been my experience that this is what will trip out the PP first. I have a machine that I needed to adjust the spindle decal parameter to prevent it from tripping the PP when stopping from above 70% of max spindle speed. Personally I wouldn't even consider anything less than the 10hp version and would recommend either the 20hp or 30hp. Unlike a rotary converter the larger PPs don't draw hardly any more power than what is demanded of them. The larger the unit the less the IGBTs are being stressed and in theory the easier it is on the unit. Also if you ever need more power then you have it. A 30 HP PP will run on a small breaker (50 amp) if you are only driving a small load with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    My setup at home:

    100A single phase breaker -> 100A disconnect (non-fused) -> 20hp Phase Perfect -> 125A 3-phase subpanel -> 30A 3-phase breaker -> 1KVA bucking transformers (two required) 240V to 208V -> Brother M140X1
    Setup at home? What do you make there or just tinker?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    Brother M140X1
    Quote Originally Posted by m98custom1212 View Post
    or just tinker?
    Hell of a tinker toy! I’m just jealous....

    I have a 200A service, 50A breaker to a American Rotary 10hp, to a 3 phase sub panel, to a 30A breaker, to two buck boost transformers, to my S1000.

    As noted before, get your buck buster ahead of time. My single phase comes in at 245, Brothers MAX allowable is 230. For whatever reason I couldn’t find a SMALL buck boost transformer that would bring 240 down to 208.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    The Brother internal Breaker is 30 AMPS. Match your exterior one to that. 30AMP Breaker is what we recommend.

    Andy
    To be clear I didn't mean to imply that a 20A breaker was proper, just that I've used the machines on a 20A without tripping it even under pretty heavy cutting (we were in the middle of switching a bunch of electrical over and had to make due for a few days). My (limited) understanding of overcurrent protection devices is that you would not get the designed longevity out of that 20A breaker in that application. Breakers slowly going bad SUCK.*

    @Orange Vise a M140 in the garage, huh? I think we need pics and video.

    *Ok, derail time. My parents had their dishwasher go out around the time I left for college and then about 8 years later the garbage disposal dies. They had been waiting to replace appliances until they redid the kitchen, but the disposal was something they didn't want to be without (with less people in the house they had no problem hand washing dishes). So my dad replaces the disposal and... it doesn't work. Turns out the breaker had gone bad slowly enough that the dishwasher wouldn't work but the disposal would for a while. They replaced the breaker and the dishwasher fired right up. Eight years! LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    My setup at home:

    100A single phase breaker -> 100A disconnect (non-fused) -> 20hp Phase Perfect -> 125A 3-phase subpanel -> 30A 3-phase breaker -> 1KVA bucking transformers (two required) 240V to 208V -> Brother M140X1
    I have a similar set up in my shop at home except I chose to reduce the voltage before the PP unit.

    I can run my S700X1 on a 30amp fused disconnect all out without issues as well. FWIW - the amp draw read out on my PP shows 6 amp draw while in operation.

    To the OP - You need to make sure you understand how much air these brothers eat before you select an air compressor and how you choose to tie this compressor into the system. Many will suggest a rotary screw compressor, but I don't know if you have enough juice on your 10HP PP.

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    When I did my 3 phase installation switching over from a 5 hp home-built to a commercial 30 Hp I was going to go with a 25 Hp but the supplier suggested a 30. He was willing to supply a 25 but if it needed more umph I got to ship the old one back. Difference between the two was a no brainer.
    Now to the nitty-gritty: 100 amp panel off my 200A main.. big contactor and 75A motor starting fuses. Lights blink and my cheapie amp-probe maxes at 600 but the beastie starts with a bang. I run about 75' of #6 Cu from the panel to the machine. Mazak V5, sticker say 11 KVA. Secondary protection is a 30A 3ph breaker from Automation Direct. Just one persons experience.

    p.s. the 5 hp ran my BP size mill.

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    Also wanted to throw it out there that Phase Technologies will help you source your buck booster. They got me in contact with Dongan to buck 245V to 220V. Although I would have rather purchased a buck booster on the secondary market, their support was worth it.

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    My shop is on a 70 amp breaker, then 60 to the 10hp PP. I too bucked the single-phase voltage down with a Dongan from PP. I run a 10hp VMC, 4hp compressor, heat, and everything else needed in the shop. I have never thrown a breaker in 15 years. I would go with the 10hp PP minimum as well. I think it uses 180 watts in idle so they don't waste much, and the bigger you get the less stress on the PP.

    Everything is hard-wired and I use the breaker to turn on the PP. The compressor is single phase. Like others have said make sure you get a compressor that can easily handle the air needs, and a chiller to remove the moisture. The more air you use the more moisture you have to deal with.

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    This is what I have:

    1.- Single phase 240V - 50A breaker
    2.- Bucking Transformer to 220V
    3.- Phase Perfect PT330 (10 HP)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    My setup at home:

    100A single phase breaker -> 100A disconnect (non-fused) -> 20hp Phase Perfect -> 125A 3-phase subpanel -> 30A 3-phase breaker -> 1KVA bucking transformers (two required) 240V to 208V -> Brother M140X1
    You brought the m140x1 home?

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    60amp breaker
    Unfused disconnect
    Dongan 1kva buck boost. 245 to 225
    Pt330
    Splitter box
    3 fused disconnects and 3 cnc machines

    Love my PT 330

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    @Orange Vise a M140 in the garage, huh? I think we need pics and video.
    Soon...

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    You brought the m140x1 home?
    Yep, gearing up for a new Youtube channel that I hope to launch next year. Part machining, part woodworking. We'll see. I haven't had much time to spend in the garage. I've had a brand new widebelt sander in there since May that I have yet to power on. This year has been nonstop new product development.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    Soon...



    Yep, gearing up for a new Youtube channel that I hope to launch next year. Part machining, part woodworking. We'll see. I haven't had much time to spend in the garage. I've had a brand new widebelt sander in there since May that I have yet to power on. This year has been nonstop new product development.
    PineVice?

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