OT: Buying a Rotary Screw Compressor - Educate me first, please. - Page 14
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 4121314
Results 261 to 279 of 279
  1. #261
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    4,816
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3834
    Likes (Received)
    1534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    And THAT would be the reason I'd rethink the buying process on the K brand VS another.
    But....if yer smitten, you may tend to overlook such problems.
    Overlook what problem? That a powersurge took out a control. Doesn't seem like a problem to me. Seems more like a risk. Yes you risk to loose more if a surge hits your building if you have a 7k compressor with a control than if you have a compressor that's control is a pressure switch.

    If you are rethinking buying a Kaeser vs another brand of small rotary screw you would be making a mistake. If it's Kaeser vs a Quincy recip than it falls under risk like I mentioned above.

    But you weren't really thinking about buying a new compressor now were you.

  2. Likes Ox liked this post
  3. #262
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Upstate NY -In the Flats next to the corn fields
    Posts
    8,964
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1445
    Likes (Received)
    2403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edster View Post
    But you weren't really thinking about buying a new compressor now were you.
    What I'd really like is for someone such as yourself to buy me a new Kaiser compressor.
    7.5 or 10HP please? And you can expect a nice Christmas card from me every year from
    now on or at least until a surge takes it out.


    I'm not so sure Ox is real serious either.
    He can be kind of a fix-er-upper with ancillary equipment.

  4. #263
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    4,816
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3834
    Likes (Received)
    1534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    BTW, you wrote:
    Is't a surge, not really a quantifiable event.

    Then:
    Out of curiosity I checked the counter and it had recorded over a thousand surges.

    Then:
    Would the slim chance of that happening stop me from buying one, no.

    Sounds a bit contradictory to me.
    Based on your observations, I'd say the surges/events are quantifiable, and you quantified them eh?
    And there are plenty of them, as you saw 1000 of them recorded.
    Seems a lot more likely something might cause a problem instead of the slim chance you predict.
    LOL, you think counting surges quantifies them.

    Hmmm...was it an under voltage or over voltage, what was the voltage, how long did each one last. There is equipment available to record this but I don't think any on this forum (well maybe Thermite) has access to it.

    Do you have any CNC machines or is your shop all manual? If you have CNC machines you already run the risk of expensive damage from electrical problems.

    Do you have panel mounted surge protectors? A relativley inexpensive device might have saved the control on David's compressor.

  5. #264
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Upstate NY -In the Flats next to the corn fields
    Posts
    8,964
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1445
    Likes (Received)
    2403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edster View Post
    A relativley inexpensive device might have saved the control on David's compressor.
    There! Amongst the contradictions, you identified the PROBLEM


    How inexpensive would it be?
    Say, to save a $3K-$4K repair?
    Seems to me like Kaiser needs to add this to their units?
    Somehow, I'm thinking you're gonna tell me they shouldn't...

    PS: Please post a link to a source for panel mounted surge protectors if you can.
    What is relatively inexpensive in your world....like $1500?

  6. #265
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    4,816
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3834
    Likes (Received)
    1534

    Default

    Have a problem answering questions do you?

    Are you a cnc shop?

    Do you have any surge supressors on you panels?

    You do know they make panel mount surge supressors that protect everything hooked up to them. You think Kaeser should supply those?

    I've had my shop since 1998, cnc since 2002, and never once had anything damaged by a power surge.

  7. #266
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    4,816
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3834
    Likes (Received)
    1534

    Default

    I have this one on my two single phase services at the shop, and at my house.

    SurgePro AC Power Surge Protector - UNIVERSAL | GE Industrial Solutions

    My compressors are single phase. I bought them before I had my 480v service installed, when I had more single phase power than three phase. The surge protectors are around $200-$300 IIRC.

    I have a built in square D surge protector in my 480v panel. Don't know what it cost because it was quoted in the project from the beginning.

    http://download.schneider-electric.c...1300BR1302.pdf

  8. #267
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    84
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    12

    Default

    Ox no they don't shut us down during the pm service.Edster is right every 3000 hrs for oil.So twice a year for me for oil.The bill is different both times.Think the charcoal is 1 a year.Do they inflate these bill absolutely I'm sure of.Just no my shop can't run with out air.I have 12 machines that require air to run.Then the guys using air for cleaning.Then 6 other machines that don't need air to run.But air hose on all of them.So yes we could save cost by not having service come.But I have a bigger problem trying to keep tool put up and keeping machines clean.So I pay them the price not having to supposedly worry about compressor.I try to keep my CNC on PM also but that doesn't work as well as kaiser does.Kinda like my granite surface plate they just show up every year to re scrape them.This year they said no go on my main inspection plate.Its cracked and unable to be certified time for a new one after 20 yrs.This business is hard enough to keep making money in.Seems like we always getting dinged couple grand and there.Fun Fun Fun.Just living the dream I guess.But really do like the kaiser compressor so far.But it does keep slapping the wallet.Just like every thing and everyone does.Any body that's done this long enough know this issue of not have air in a shop.Pretty much death in the long run.Hope yours keep chips moving for you.I did spend the big bucks on my air system.2-15hp compressor with chiller and dyrier.Also a 240 gal tank with water purification sysytem.For the amount 30,000.00 I'm pretty happy with it.Dont know what else to say about

  9. #268
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    14,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4552
    Likes (Received)
    6699

    Default

    FYI why the fuck does it take a $4K component to control a compressor? At most you have a dozen sensors and a range of a few canned cycles. Doing it with a simple PLC you would not have over 1K lines of ladder logic in it.

    To me, theres something seriously wrong with that supplier if it really takes them that much to control something so simple. If there actually marking up a $300 board, to $4K including install, that i believe, all the more so when i here 8Hrs to service a compressor. 8hrs would make sense if there fully pulling and rebuilding the air end, but oil and filters, yeah right :-)

  10. Likes SND liked this post
  11. #269
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Upstate NY -In the Flats next to the corn fields
    Posts
    8,964
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1445
    Likes (Received)
    2403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edster View Post
    I have this one on my two single phase services at the shop, and at my house.

    SurgePro AC Power Surge Protector - UNIVERSAL | GE Industrial Solutions

    My compressors are single phase. I bought them before I had my 480v service installed, when I had more single phase power than three phase. The surge protectors are around $200-$300 IIRC.

    I have a built in square D surge protector in my 480v panel. Don't know what it cost because it was quoted in the project from the beginning.

    http://download.schneider-electric.c...1300BR1302.pdf
    Thanks for the link, I'll check them out. None installed here right now, but probably not bad insurance.
    As to answer all the questions you fired off, sorry I didn't hop to the answers quicker for you. Chill, put down that Red Bull or Monster Energy drink, you've had enough. Remain calm, take a few deep breaths and relax, it's going to be OK.

    I have a few older cnc machines here as well as manuals. Been at it since 1979. As for me not being in the market for a new screw compressor, no I'm not. I never said I was. What I said was "I was just startin to feel a bit warm & fuzzy about Kaiser until I read post 234". If that gave you the impression that I was shopping for a new compressor, well, I can't help you with that. I didn't see where the OP stated "only people currently shopping for a new screw compressor can participate in this thread". It's about me liking the brand. And now that I've heard that story, I like the brand a lot less.
    If you're in love with yours, that's just great. Defend your position as you see fit.

    I think I will back away from trying to carrying on any reasonable conversation with you on the compressor topic, I can't seem to get my point across. Your situation sounds like it's working for you, and that's great.

    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    FYI why the fuck does it take a $4K component to control a compressor? At most you have a dozen sensors and a range of a few canned cycles. Doing it with a simple PLC you would not have over 1K lines of ladder logic in it.

    To me, theres something seriously wrong with that supplier if it really takes them that much to control something so simple. If there actually marking up a $300 board, to $4K including install, that i believe, all the more so when i here 8Hrs to service a compressor. 8hrs would make sense if there fully pulling and rebuilding the air end, but oil and filters, yeah right :-)
    Pretty much sums up what I am thinking, four letter words added for effect....
    People spend their money in different ways and justify it accordingly.
    The air coming out of my pipes does the same job as the air coming from a $30K rig I think. As I said, 'to each his own'. I fully understand the mission critical nature of an operation such as that of TCEDM's.
    There's no time to be dinkin around with older equipment, and in the overall scheme, the cost of the air system is a small percentage. If I was in that scale of operation, I'd be doing similar.

  12. #270
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Near Seattle
    Posts
    4,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2911
    Likes (Received)
    1232

    Default

    It seems to me that a few bits of context have slipped through the gaps in this thread.

    What high efficiency quiet compressor is *less* vulnerable to power issues, or *cheaper* to repair than a Kaeser? (I don't know.) Saying it's cheaper to keep some very loud not as net efficient piston compressor going is fine, but you if care, or are required to care, about efficiency and noise, that makes the issue more complicated.

    Indeed, why do you want a VFD, auto unload, auto shut off at all? Yes, you can leave those things off the compressor and it will be cheaper to build and cheaper to maintain. Also less effiicent, louder, etc.

    There may well be better choices than a Kaeser.

    As to Ox's point, there's a scale issue. If you maintain and repair a bunch of machinery then the compressor won't be so much of an addition. If you don't have the time/skills/other resources to do more than cleaning level maintence on any of your machines, adding the compressor will be a big gulp. The levels of maintence I do are slowly creeping up over time, but still nowhere close to many of you.

    Another thought is "where is the value add?" - even in my hobby shop, the value (what I give to charities or give to myself) is all in programming, development, prototyping, tooling, etc. In short, my resources as a machinist, fabricator, experimenter. I have nothing special to add related to maintence of modern machinery. Not that I couldn't do it, but I for sure cannot do it better, faster, cheaper than somebody who does those things on a regular basis. Note that it's not just skills, it other resources. The forklift maintence guy shows up with a truck of parts and tools and a neato device to vacuum oil out of the forklift for oil changes. Does it really make sense for me to buy that device? The Kaeser tech shows up with a similar collection of stuff. Yes, it's just a grommet. They charge for it. They charge so much for it it might be worth several milliseconds of my time to try to source it elsewhere....

    Now some of you have business niches that are clearly about making relatively low capex machinery work to be competitive on parts, and so you are millwrights and machine makers as well as parts makers. Good on you! (I actually think skills diversity is good for people and good for society, try to develop it in myself and encourage it in other people.)

    If you read this far you'll note I agree with some part of most every comment on this thread.... A new level of wishy washy....

  13. Likes wrustle, Edster liked this post
  14. #271
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    4,816
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3834
    Likes (Received)
    1534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    As to answer all the questions you fired off, sorry I didn't hop to the answers quicker for you. Chill, put down that Red Bull or Monster Energy drink, you've had enough. Remain calm, take a few deep breaths and relax, it's going to be OK.

    I think I will back away from trying to carrying on any reasonable conversation with you on the compressor topic, I can't seem to get my point across.
    I completley understand your point, I just think it's silly to blame the compressor for being damaged from a power surge.

    I've owned old recip compressors and considered two new quincy recips when I bought the Kaesers. Believe it or not the price difference wasn't that much between the two.

    Anyone willing to carry on a reasonable conversation would have answered my two questions. They were both yes or no questions.
    Last edited by Edster; 05-03-2015 at 05:50 PM.

  15. #272
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    78
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    43
    Likes (Received)
    60

    Default

    Man, all this arguing about the compressor.

    One data point tells us nothing. I'm an electronics guy by education - and if a power surge killed the whole control on a compressor and didn't damage any other machinery, then it sure sounds like a shoddy design combined with exorbitant repair costs. But it's just ONE instance. Who knows what happened - maybe the compressor was hooked up wrong. Maybe someone messed with it. Maybe someone did something dumb outside the building that no surge protector could save. Maybe the service guy replaced a whole lot more than we're being told.

    I do know that a lot of shops around here run Kaeser compressors and I haven't heard anything bad other than the one post in this thread. I've had enough people do dumb things with my products and then post on the Internet (without telling the full story or accepting any blame for what they did wrong) to know that a single case isn't all that damning for Kaeser.

    Anyone else having issues with their Kaeser compressors?

  16. #273
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    25,070
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5309
    Likes (Received)
    7825

    Default

    I wonder if Ed's compressors were installed with their own ground rods?


    Adam - I ass_u_me that these are not just PLC machines, but rather have a VFD to control speed as well.
    Ed? (or whoever it was that had the blowout)

    The older (90's) Quincy 50 that I have now does not have the VFD, but has a variable intake throttle as opposed to the more frequent OPEN/CLOSED valves like on my recips. The Quincy will slowly lower the intake volume to try to balance with the usage. If it can't get down to that level, then it will concede and just close the valve altogether and freewheel. (or shut off if I have it set that way)
    I have not checked it yet, but I was told by my ... friend that I bought it off of that they could watch the amp draw reduce as the pressure came up and the volume went down. I will check one day. However we don't use it much currently.

    I highly doubt that any other VFD controlled compressor wired up the same way would have came out any better, save for luck.

    We took a jolt back in 2006 I think. Was NOT a stormy day, just a relatively normal overcast summer Great Lakes day. I don't think that it was raining, but if it was - it was just a drizzle, but I don't think so. Had not heard any thunder at all. I was not aware of anything out of the ordinary, and then out of the corner of my eye, I seen a bolt hit the pole out in the field carrying my hydro line.

    I was , but everything that was running, was still running like nothing ever happened. However - a 40hp DC spindle drive that was NOT running at the time was wiped out, my nearly one yr old (new IMO) DRO on the lathe was toast, took out the auto drain on the one compressor (the other is mechanical), and my fairly new upright deep freeze was gone. Ranged anywhere from one day to one month 'till I found all of these issues.

    Trying to diminish a product b/c it went bad in a freak jolt just aint really a good measuring stick. Now if that same drive goes out frequently from similar deals when other don't have the same issue, then I would first look at the grounding used, and then at the product. But I would not think for a second that Keiser is using second rate drives.

    Keep one thing in mind guys - I am NOT questioning Keiser's quality or even value. I am only questioning what magic some of you think that tech has in his tool kit is all.


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  17. #274
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    4,816
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3834
    Likes (Received)
    1534

    Default

    OX, it was David N that had the blowout.

    The sigma basic control is plc based. It is installed on the smaller compressors.

    KAESER USA ? Reliable Control Technology

    The larger compressors have the sigma control that is an industrial PC based control.

    KAESER USA ? Innovative Control Technology

    Kaeser also makes variable speed compressors. All of their compressors have soft start though. There is a lot of wiring inside the electrical cabinet of these compressors.

    Btw, I only have a ground rod at the service entrance. All equipment has a grounding conductor that's the same size as the supply run back to the panel.

  18. Likes Ox liked this post
  19. #275
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    4,158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    718
    Likes (Received)
    1757

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by david n View Post
    Also, make sure you check your oil sight glass. Mine was getting lower and lower and there was drips of oil on the floor. Come to find out the ball valve at the bottom of the oil reservoir was leakin. Never used the valve since I got the thing and it just starts leakin. WTH? Service guy at Kaeser said it was not unusaual. Huh? It's a stinkin ball valve...........
    A valve without a plug? Poor form from the OEM. Valves are for temporary shut-off, plugs/blinds/caps and for longer durations.

  20. #276
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    417
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    286
    Likes (Received)
    33

    Default

    My Kaiser SM11 is 21 years old now. It shows 39340 hrs. I replace belts, oil and filters once every year...it keeps plugging along.

  21. Likes wrustle, Ox liked this post
  22. #277
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,236
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    600
    Likes (Received)
    3391

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott101 View Post
    To properly select your screw air compressor, you must first determine how often it will be used, according to the compressed air requirements of your application.

    You also have to decide whether you want to be mobile or permanently installed. In this case you must ensure that the compressor is well ventilated to ensure optimal cooling.

    Another important element to keep in mind is the continuous operation time of your compressor. The manufacturers usually indicate a duty cycle for their products. It determines how long the compressor can be operated within an hour. A compressor with a duty cycle of 30% can only be operated for 18 minutes and then has to cool for 42 minutes.

    Air compressors enable the use of various portable pneumatic tools: hammers, nailers , air tools , pneumatic drills , pneumatic guns, dye jet , sand blasting equipment , etc.

    Stationary or mobile air compressors can also be used in industry or agriculture.
    Nice work spammer, bumping a 4 year old thread.

  23. Likes Scott101 liked this post
  24. #278
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    To select your screw air compressor properly, you must first determine how often it will be used, according to the compressed air requirements of your application.

    You also have to decide whether you want to be mobile or permanently installed. In this case you must ensure that the compressor is well ventilated to ensure optimal cooling.

    Another important element to keep in mind is the continuous operation time of your compressor. The manufacturers usually indicate a duty cycle for their products. It determines how long the compressor can be operated within an hour. A compressor with a duty cycle of 30% can only be operated for 18 minutes and then has to cool for 42 minutes.

    Air compressors enable the use of various portable pneumatic tools: hammers, nailers , air tools , pneumatic drills , pneumatic guns, dye jet , sand blasting equipment , etc.

    Stationary or mobile air compressors can also be used in industry or agriculture.
    Best regard
    Scott Angel

  25. #279
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pillager, MN
    Posts
    5,700
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1861
    Likes (Received)
    5171

    Default

    ................................Whew!............. .His other post was deleted, good thing he posted again..............

  26. Likes Ox, doug925, digger doug liked this post

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •