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  1. #1
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    Default powering a fadal for home

    Getting a 3016 fadal for home. Company is throwing away, just have to pay for the riggers.
    But, what is the best way to power it? We got it used and came from a home with a single phase transformer in it, which we pulled went to 3p and no idea where the old one went. Now the questions is - back to the 1p transformer, pp solid state or rpc?

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    Rotary is cheap.. They are loud, obnoxious, and power hogs... But they are cheap, and when you want to upgrade, they sell
    quick... And you don't need a giant one to run the full HP rating of the spindle, or full amperage draw of the machine..
    You could honestly be fine with a 5hp rpc, just don't take more than a 3 or 4 horse cut...

    Some worthless useless piece of shit thief took the big breakers for my Fadals out of
    my boxes and put in some 30amp breakers that were laying around.. (240v 3ph) it
    took me a long time to discover that, and I don't baby them..

    I ran a Fadal 15hp(HORSE power, not HAAS Power) spindle, forever rating.. 22.5hp for whatever amount of time (5 or 15)
    on a 10hp RPC and never had a problem, I just kept in mind the 10hp limitation and didn't try and pull down huge cuts with it.
    You aren't spinning up a lathe with a big fat heavy chuck and giant bearings (I had to go to a 5 second ramp to get my lathe to run
    in low gear, it would never run at all in high gear, even with a 10 second ramp on a 25hp RPC, spindle motor rated 25hp for 30min, 20hp
    forever).

    A single phase transformer, I looked into them quite some time ago.. They weren't cheap, you aren't the only one that wants one...

    RPC as a last resort, or stop gap (they suck).. Phase Perfect or 4 big wires from the pole as a forever solution..

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    I have a Fadal 4020 in that garage that I run on a 20hp RPC, never had a problem with it.

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    I have installed a number of RPCs for customers over the years on all different kinds of equipment, they always worked well when sized properly. One thing to watch, make sure the phase created by the RPC is only used for the spindle motor and other actual 3 phase loads like the coolant pump. You want to be sure the axis drives and CNC controller are not connected to that phase. The created phase may have some pretty big voltage imbalance when the 3 phase loads start and stop.

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    I have a Fadal 4020 in my garage as well, running from basically a 7.5 hp RPC + generator head. One trick that helped me was reducing the Accel / Decel of the main spindle, which on my was done by adjusting the trim pots for the drive. This eliminates the inrush current spikes, which is the largest concern for machine tool power rating. No problems... but I plan for the acceleration delays in programming and watch that my spindle load meter stays below 60%. Works great for me, even though the math says it shouldn't .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    4 big wires from the pole as a forever solution..
    Sure is, but he's at home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    A single phase transformer, I looked into them quite some time ago.. They weren't cheap, you aren't the only one that wants one...
    Depends. I bought one for my dc machine, but my spindle inverter would not run using it. It's a t813, so now it just sits on the garage floor as there has not been one single bite at $200 less than new (which it basically is)....

    It is not cheap, but I bought a 10hp phase perfect. Could not be happier, even though there is that weird pitch coming from it, but only audible when the mill is off.
    Last edited by Billsnogo; 11-24-2016 at 07:22 AM.

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    Rotary if you can put it in an out building or don't mind the noise. I had to have quiet in my shop since its just a door between it and my house and a common wall. I went with a very expensive Phase Perfect converter.Best accessory for my Robodrill yet.No noise and way more efficient than a RPC.

    Donny

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    I run mine off a 20hp American rotary converter.
    it's nice because the converter isn't very noisy.
    the 7.5 hp phaseperfect I run my manual stuff off on the other hand
    is noisy it makes more noise then the lathe most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    I run mine off a 20hp American rotary converter.
    it's nice because the converter isn't very noisy.
    the 7.5 hp phaseperfect I run my manual stuff off on the other hand
    is noisy it makes more noise then the lathe most of the time.

    Are you saying that just the convertor part isn't noisy or the entire unit(with generator)? How is this less noisy than a phase perfect?

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    American rotary converters are very quiet. I have an AD15 and I canít hear it run at all. I feel heat coming from that corner of the shop and only hear it when I turn it on otherwise itís silent operation. Itís been very good and runs very efficient. I run my entire shop from it and have no issues with multiple pierces of equipment running at the same time.

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    I bought an 88amp Phase Perfect solid state converter back in 2006 to run a 4020 and a VMC40 and a manual mill at my house. I think I paid something like $6K for it back then. Good investment. Still working perfectly to this day. It's one of those things that you bite the bullet, buy it once, and reap the benefits of it for years and years.

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    To avoid the high leg, I run through a buck isolation transformer after my 40hp american rotary.
    Very slick setup.

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    I'm running my 15hp bridgeport vmc1000 on a panel from wny supply and a 20hp Baldor 1750 rpm motor. I balanced the third leg output adding a few caps until it was within 7v on all 3 phases. I made sure to run the generated leg on l3 to keep clean line power on the sensitive circuits as others have talked about.

    Been working absolutely fantastic and I can't hear the Baldor idler over the cooling fans in the cnc cabinet with the spindle off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uguessedit View Post
    American rotary converters are very quiet. I have an AD15 and I canít hear it run at all. I feel heat coming from that corner of the shop and only hear it when I turn it on otherwise itís silent operation. Itís been very good and runs very efficient. I run my entire shop from it and have no issues with multiple pierces of equipment running at the same time.
    Wish my American rotary was quiet. Makes a loud buzzing noise that's pretty annoying. Otherwise works fine on my speedio.

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    I saw a guy on facebook, I think, that did a single phase conversion on his Fadal mill. He changed the transformer arrangement and lost some spindle HP but it looked very simple. The new transformer fit in the existing panel so no extra work there.

    I dont think Im electrically saavy enough to do it from scratch, but it may be an option for some.

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    Is it an older model? Perhaps you have a cap wearing out or something with the motor. If youíre using the supplied motor with cabinet it should be very quiet. I turned everything off in the shop except lights and the light ballasts are louder than the rpc. Iím currently upgrading to a Fadal 3016L so Iím now researching adding an Ofer motor though reading again all the guys using smaller rotaryís on large motors makes me consider trying it and seeing if my usage will work. The other concern is if I drop a 10-15hp idler pulled from a pile of old motors if that could generate noises I havenít had. The guys at AR had told me their baldor motors are why theyíre so quiet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    Rotary is cheap.. They are loud, obnoxious, and power hogs... But they are cheap, and when you want to upgrade, they sell
    quick... And you don't need a giant one to run the full HP rating of the spindle, or full amperage draw of the machine..
    You could honestly be fine with a 5hp rpc, just don't take more than a 3 or 4 horse cut...

    Some worthless useless piece of shit thief took the big breakers for my Fadals out of
    my boxes and put in some 30amp breakers that were laying around.. (240v 3ph) it
    took me a long time to discover that, and I don't baby them..

    I ran a Fadal 15hp(HORSE power, not HAAS Power) spindle, forever rating.. 22.5hp for whatever amount of time (5 or 15)
    on a 10hp RPC and never had a problem, I just kept in mind the 10hp limitation and didn't try and pull down huge cuts with it.
    You aren't spinning up a lathe with a big fat heavy chuck and giant bearings (I had to go to a 5 second ramp to get my lathe to run
    in low gear, it would never run at all in high gear, even with a 10 second ramp on a 25hp RPC, spindle motor rated 25hp for 30min, 20hp
    forever).

    A single phase transformer, I looked into them quite some time ago.. They weren't cheap, you aren't the only one that wants one...

    RPC as a last resort, or stop gap (they suck).. Phase Perfect or 4 big wires from the pole as a forever solution..
    Why would you have 4 wires. Three phase only uses 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcasanova View Post
    Getting a 3016 fadal for home. Company is throwing away, just have to pay for the riggers.
    But, what is the best way to power it? We got it used and came from a home with a single phase transformer in it, which we pulled went to 3p and no idea where the old one went. Now the questions is - back to the 1p transformer, pp solid state or rpc?
    I just bought this... God be with me.. PT020 $5486.00 I have a rotary and its ok but Im sick of it so was looking at VFD's and Sine filters.. bla, bla,, bla.. and said WTH...

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  26. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Headz Marine View Post
    I just bought this... God be with me.. PT020 $5486.00 I have a rotary and its ok but Im sick of it so was looking at VFD's and Sine filters.. bla, bla,, bla.. and said WTH...
    yea I did the pp route with the 10hp box about $3300. works like a champ.


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