Price check, used bed mill.

Bobw · Apr 10, 2020

DPM5 KMX Upgrade - Bed Mill (P021AC11346UP) For Sale - TRAK Machine Tools - Southwestern Industries, Inc.

If the link dies. 40x20 proto trak bed mill. 40x20x23.5. 2002.. Open, no tool changer. Cat 40
with a power draw bar. Upgraded to prototrak KMX with new servos and belts. (I don't see ballscrews
or spindle mentioned) 5hp. $25,995.

Asking for a friend. Seriously.

Any comments? I'm going to talk to him tomorrow.

Y'all already know what I'm going to say to him..

But I'd like to get some more input. He's a good dude, and he's related to me, and
I don't want to see him spend more than he could buy 2 fadals and a corvette for..
And end up running down the wrong road.

theperfessor · Apr 10, 2020

I've seen used Haas TM1s and TM2s with 10 tool changers of that vintage for the same or lower price. Designed for CNC from the start, not a retrofitted knee mill. Just my opinion.

I think with what is going on the prices on good used equipment of all types will be dropping.

winger · Apr 10, 2020

condition of machine matters but I see these going for 12-15k.
Not as clean or new as the one you posted though.
Dave

USED ProtoTrak DPM 3-Axis Bed Mill w/ Air Powered Drawbar & Tooling
USED ProtoTrak DPM 3-Axis Bed Mill w/ Air Powered Drawbar & Tooling
Pre-Owned
$12,800.00

SeymourDumore · Apr 10, 2020

Bob you obviously know the correct answer, but just in case you need further reinforcement put me solidly into the NO column!

For reference, back in 2008 I've purchased a very decent condition Milltronics MB19 of a 1999 vintage. ( just like this one: Machines Used | Milltronics MB19 CNC Bed Mill with Centurion 6 CNC Control )
Note the weight difference of nearly #3000, the chip guards and chip pan, limit switches, coolant pump, real handwheel ( std ) and true G-code programmability.

All that for $14,000 plus a local $500 for rigging.
That was a 9 year old machine!

Frankly, I almost can not believe SWI would sink so low as to be pimping a rebuilt 18 year old machine for $26K, except for the fact that I know they charge something like $300 for the optional limit switches
and $250 for a safety hand guard around the spindle ( also optional ) on new purchases.

Nibleswick · Apr 10, 2020

We have a couple of these at work. The controls aren't bad. They have a lot of backlash in the z axis. You can push the head around when it is supposed to be locked in place. The bosses bought them new for about 50k each five years ago. One had two servos burnout last week. The more I use them the less impressed I get in comparison to our other bed mill which is a 20 year old Fryer. I'm no expert, so take my anecdotes with a grain of salt.

706jim · Apr 11, 2020

Don't buy it even if the price was a lot lower. Knee mill no ATC no enclosure and all the problems found with a quill as to rigidity and Z travel. Guessing Z is the knee bobbing up and down?

Milland · Apr 11, 2020

706jim said:
Don't buy it even if the price was a lot lower. Knee mill no ATC no enclosure and all the problems found with a quill as to rigidity and Z travel. Guessing Z is the knee bobbing up and down?

Bed mill, so no knee. It would be the head casting (carrying the quill) moving up and down.

I vote with the majority - too expensive, by about 50%.

gundog · Apr 11, 2020

I have a 97 with an AGE3 control an upgraded control these machines bring more than other bed mills the upgraded control is a 9K upgrade. I think it is a little high I would say 18K-20K. I paid 16K for mine used back about 2010. If it has any tooling vises or holders that all adds up. I always look at them when I see them for sale used to see what they are selling for. Since owning mine I have replaced 2 scales and the Z axis servo. I would like the newer upgraded control but not for 9K.

I like having it around even though now I use a VMC more that I did not have when I bought the Trak I still like the open machine for some things and quick manual operations. Trak gives me free tech support even though the machine is a 97 and I bought it used.

SeymourDumore · Apr 11, 2020

gundog said:
... the upgraded control is a 9K upgrade. I think it is a little high I ... I paid 16K for mine used back about 2010. ...

You have gotta be kiddin' !!!!

So you think that $9K is just a bit high for $400 worth of hardware and $0 of firmware/software for an upgrade from the people who actually don't have to spend a single friggin' penny for it?

As far as I am concerned, SWI has managed to superbly ride a unique wave in the past.
That wave however is now coming to ashore, never to be ridden again.

Greg White · Apr 11, 2020

Say NO, for that $ there should be mo machine.
good luck.
Gw

Phil in Montana · Apr 11, 2020

10k overpriced...Phil

Mud · Apr 11, 2020

Possible insight into SWI pricing - I bought a very similar DPM in 2015 from a local shop. They were buying a new Prototrak VMC and were offered $4000 by SWI for this machine. I offered $5000 and got it. It has the original AGE3 control but is in good condition, has been fine for us, had just had the control/monitor pendant replaced before the deal. They know how to bear down on the pencil, plus Prototrak prices are artificially high just like Haas prices are.

markz528 · Apr 11, 2020

I was looking for a small bed mill a couple of years ago and was seriously looking at the SWI Prototrak. They are a screwed up company. They have direct company sales guys that won't budge on price competing against dealers that will haggle.

But a phone call to SWI convinced me immediately to stay away from SWI. I called to inquire what it would take to get the machine single phase compatible. They basically said its a 3 phase machine and go away. So I bought an Atrump with Centroid control - they up-sized the drive for single phase operation and changed the coolant pump to single phase. No additional cost. Atrump mill has not been perfect but very glad I chose that over the Prototrak.

Mud · Apr 11, 2020

The SWI sales guy was here a few months ago, pushing hard that we needed to upgrade the control for the $9K, because the AGE3 was no longer supported and repairs would be unavailable. In Feb the X axis drive quit. We got an exchange for the entire control module for $1400 exchange for the old unit. It's amazing how little the entire control w/drives and everything is. The new one has USB stick emulators in it to replace the old floppy drives, that was nice. SWI has been good about support and service, I like that about them, but the sales tactics are annoying.

If this was my only CNC I'd hate it. As a second op machine it has pretty much replaced any manual machine except for the most basic operations, We'd like it more if it could tap automatically I am told by the shop that has the new VMC that the new controls are greatly improved for programming and operation.

Karl_T · Apr 11, 2020

Say, I'm buying a retirement winter home in FL. Up north I have two CNC mills, two CNC lathes, two manual mills, three manual lathes plus all the other assorted stuff for a machine shop

Got room for two machines in the FL one car garage size shop. I am thinking a new southwest bedmill does both manual and a small bit of CNC work. Good idea? Just hobby farting around FWIW.

Mud · Apr 12, 2020

Karl_T said:
Say, I'm buying a retirement winter home in FL. Up north I have two CNC mills, two CNC lathes, two manual mills, three manual lathes plus all the other assorted stuff for a machine shop

Got room for two machines in the FL one car garage size shop. I am thinking a new southwest bedmill does both manual and a small bit of CNC work. Good idea? Just hobby farting around FWIW.

Would depend completely on what you will be doing with it. If you are as accomplished as you sound, I'd want something like a Deckel FP3NC or FP4NC for my only machine. Would be 10X the machine at 1/4 the price, but you'd have to be your own service technician.

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Price check, used bed mill.

Bobw

Diamond

theperfessor

Cast Iron

winger

Stainless

SeymourDumore

Diamond

Nibleswick

Aluminum

706jim

Titanium

Milland

Diamond

gundog

Hot Rolled

SeymourDumore

Diamond

Greg White

Titanium

Phil in Montana

Stainless

Mud

Diamond

markz528

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Mud

Diamond

Karl_T

Cast Iron

Mud

Diamond

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