Pros and Cons of Fadal 15,15xt vs 3016L

GWIZ · Mar 6, 2020

Looking for a smaller machine to mostly use for hobby work to start. These look like they would do the job. Would have liked to get a 10k spindle but it doesn't look like they they were made with one. I have found a couple of each and need to narrow it down. all units are 95-2002 and have 88hs or MPC (non windows). What is the difference between these machines?

Thanks for your help.

aarongough · Mar 6, 2020

They are very similar machines... The 3016L weighs just a little more, and has slightly faster rapids but other than that I don't think you're going to see much difference between them in terms of capability.

The larger travels of the 3016L and VMC15XT would be very nice and I would tend to favor those machines for that reason if you have a line on a good one!

I would stick with the CNC88HS control, it's by far the most common and is very capable overall. I run very large 3D contouring programs on my CNC88HS (-4) machine every day with no problems!

Whichever machine you get: buy the Calmotion DNC box for it so you can run unlimited sized programs off a USB stick! I have them in both my machines and couldn't live without them!

D Nelson · Mar 6, 2020

If the 30-16 l is a a/c machine that would be a lot better machine
Don

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Delw · Mar 7, 2020

D Nelson said:
If the 30-16 l is a a/c machine that would be a lot better machine
Don

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it should be, I picked one up year 2000 2 weeks ago its a freaking beast They call it an extra heavy duty? . Makes my 96 fadal 40/20 look like a hass mini mill. it has the Mp control on it. I love it pretty much the same as the fadal -4 control feel wise. The casting is massive compared too the 40x20 fadals also fast and smooth as silk. been running a 321 stainless job on the 40x20 for a bunch of months we doubled up using this machine and you cant here it cut and the 3/4" 4 flute sandvick indexable endmill last 100+ parts compared to 60pcs on the 40x20. our haas vf2ss wont even cut it with out sounding like its going to destroy the machine.

ripperj · Mar 7, 2020

Aren’t the 15s linear ways and the 3016 box ways?
OP. - box ways are beefier and make the machine more rigid, but use turcite. There can be issues with wear in general and also the turcite has been known to delaminate from the table and saddle.
Also the flex lube lines to the table often break and don’t get replaced immediately, damaging both the turcite and the ways.
All these things can be looked at pretty well by popping the way covers off and moving the table to max travel on both ends. The saddle is tough as the the turcite is never exposed, but the ways can be looked at.

FYI - a VMC 20 is a rarer machine that comes with a 10k spindle option. It’s like a small 4020, same castings and box ways, only 1/2 the X travel (20 vs 40)
It’s still a beast for a home shop at close to 8000#. Id rather have the extra 20” X .( I have a VMC 20, and it takes up most of a garage bay, might as well just take up the whole thing

)

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Ianagos · Mar 7, 2020

The linear way machines aren’t bad. But definitely recommend a newer ac machine if you can find one. The 3016 box way machines were very rigid. More rigid than a 4020 even. the thing is the vmc 15 can be had a lot cheaper and don’t suffer from the turcite peeling and no gib adjustments.there are pluses and minuses each way.

Edit: saw you are in Michigan there should be lots of machines up there. Also the 3016 will most likely have the 10k spindle you want while the linear machines like 3016l or vmc15 will only have the 7500rpm spindle.

GWIZ · Mar 7, 2020

I really didn’t want the worry if the non linear ways are we’re going to be an issue. Linear ways are generally simpler to replace. But I will keep looking. Not sure the best way to inspect them.

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aarongough · Mar 7, 2020

Delw said:
it should be, I picked one up year 2000 2 weeks ago its a freaking beast They call it an extra heavy duty? . Makes my 96 fadal 40/20 look like a hass mini mill. it has the Mp control on it. I love it pretty much the same as the fadal -4 control feel wise. The casting is massive compared too the 40x20 fadals also fast and smooth as silk. been running a 321 stainless job on the 40x20 for a bunch of months we doubled up using this machine and you cant here it cut and the 3/4" 4 flute sandvick indexable endmill last 100+ parts compared to 60pcs on the 40x20. our haas vf2ss wont even cut it with out sounding like its going to destroy the machine.

Sounds like you mean a 3016 which is a pretty different machine compared to the 3016L! Everything I've heard indicates that the 3016 is probably the most rigid machine that Fadal made. 8,400lb for a 30x16 machine!

Delw · Mar 7, 2020

aarongough said:
Sounds like you mean a 3016 which is a pretty different machine compared to the 3016L! Everything I've heard indicates that the 3016 is probably the most rigid machine that Fadal made. 8,400lb for a 30x16 machine!

Correct not an L its a VHT very high torque

Add'd the riggers said this machine weighs a few more thousand than a standard 4020. he was saying close to 13-14k I thoguht

DavidScott · Mar 7, 2020

I worked on a 15xt with a 10k spindle so it was an option. The downside of a linear way machine is one decent crash while traveling in X and you can twist the head on the blocks.

GWIZ · Mar 7, 2020

So what is the best way to check status of the box ways? Pry bar & indicator?

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Delw · Mar 7, 2020

GWIZ said:
So what is the best way to check status of the box ways? Pry bar & indicator?

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Take the covers off and check visually. only thing a pry bar and indicator will tell you is your gibbs/straps are loose.

triumph406 · Mar 7, 2020

Ianagos said:
The linear way machines aren’t bad. But definitely recommend a newer ac machine if you can find one. The 3016 box way machines were very rigid. More rigid than a 4020 even. the thing is the vmc 15 can be had a lot cheaper and don’t suffer from the turcite peeling and no gib adjustments.there are pluses and minuses each way.

Edit: saw you are in Michigan there should be lots of machines up there. Also the 3016 will most likely have the 10k spindle you want while the linear machines like 3016l or vmc15 will only have the 7500rpm spindle.

recently somebody from the FADAL family (active on the other forum)told me that the box way 3016 was the best machine that Fadal ever built.

Ianagos · Mar 7, 2020

triumph406 said:
recently somebody from the FADAL family (active on the other forum)told me that the box way 3016 was the best machine that Fadal ever built.

I have a 4020 with the datc and chip conveyer and if I could I’d probably have a 3016 but I’ve never seen one with those options. I also have a 5020a with linear rails and it’s great after 20 years the rails look perfect and it cuts holes as round as brand new haas mills.

triumph406 · Mar 7, 2020

Ianagos said:
I have a 4020 with the datc and chip conveyer and if I could I’d probably have a 3016 but I’ve never seen one with those options. I also have a 5020a with linear rails and it’s great after 20 years the rails look perfect and it cuts holes as round as brand new haas mills.

3016 is too small for what I do, I have a 4020, but would prefer to have a 6030, there's some stuff I have to do 2 setups on the 4020 table.

Ianagos · Mar 7, 2020

triumph406 said:
3016 is too small for what I do, I have a 4020, but would prefer to have a 6030, there's some stuff I have to do 2 setups on the 4020 table.

That I understand I want a 6030 aswell. In the best world I’ll have a big slow machine and a small fast rapids machine.

Delw · Mar 7, 2020

Ianagos said:
I have a 4020 with the datc and chip conveyer and if I could I’d probably have a 3016 but I’ve never seen one with those options. I also have a 5020a with linear rails and it’s great after 20 years the rails look perfect and it cuts holes as round as brand new haas mills.

Whats datc? my 3016 has a chip conveyor thing is awsum has adjustable coolant nozzle as well, havent used it yet..

Just for the hell of it I put a tape on the width of the 3016 I recently got the base casting is 35" wide the 4020 I have has a 25" base casting

aarongough · Mar 8, 2020

Delw said:
Whats datc?

"Dual Arm Tool Changer"

Much faster than the standard toolchanger, and higher capacity too if I remember right... I don't see many Fadals with them fitted though.

Ianagos · Mar 8, 2020

aarongough said:
"Dual Arm Tool Changer"

Much faster than the standard toolchanger, and higher capacity too if I remember right... I don't see many Fadals with them fitted though.

Yea 24+1 capable . Pretty quick compared to a carousel but if the next tool is not prestaged you still have wait for the drum to come around. I actually saw a 62 datc made by fadal and that would be the dream.

As far as seeing them I’ve never seen one on smaller than a 4020. But most of their heavy duty line like the 4525 and 3020 came with them.

Also now I need to measure the castings on mine. 32” on a 30x16 vs 25” on a 4020 that’s a big difference. That alone pretty much means the 3016 is fully supported under the ways and that should be a stout machine. My 4020 is 2002 my 5020 is 1998. What year is your 3016 and 4020?

Delw · Mar 8, 2020

aarongough said:
"Dual Arm Tool Changer"

Much faster than the standard toolchanger, and higher capacity too if I remember right... I don't see many Fadals with them fitted though.

Yeah now I understand the abbreviation. I saw one of those at a local shop on a newer 40x20 fadal its as fast as my vf2ss there pretty sweet.

Pros and Cons of Fadal 15,15xt vs 3016L

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