Thread: Pushing your Speedio

Originally Posted by DavidScott

My problem is my BT30 tools go in an 8000 lb box way drill/tap center which skews my expectations on how hard you can safely push a BT30 tool. All this talk about the limitations of BT30 isn't correct, those limitations lie elsewhere.

Same as my thoughts because with the BBT30 Feelers i had, no problemo!

Originally Posted by Fal Grunt

I was going to make almost exactly that analogy.

Problem was I couldn't figure out how to make the other side of the analogy.

My thinking is it's a Yamaha R6, (or R1 with dual contact), not an F-350. It's a lot faster and it corners real nice, but if you're moving sacks of concrete take the truck.

Originally Posted by DavidScott

My problem is my BT30 tools go in an 8000 lb box way drill/tap center which skews my expectations on how hard you can safely push a BT30 tool. All this talk about the limitations of BT30 isn't correct, those limitations lie elsewhere.

No one appears to have issues with how the drill/tap center drills/taps. They have issues with how a drill/tap center does heavy milling.

Originally Posted by mhajicek

My thinking is it's a Yamaha R6, (or R1 with dual contact), not an F-350. It's a lot faster and it corners real nice, but if you're moving sacks of concrete take the truck.

^^^^^ Exactly

My thinking about pushing my Speedios goes like this. I leave a big margin of error and do not cut at the edge of safety. Any savings in time will be totally wiped out if I trash the spindle.

I like to listen to machine and stay away from tools that create lot of noise. In my mind noise is not good and is result of some kind of vibration. For example Shearhog and insert end mills sound like they are trashing the machine. I don't use them. Also roughing end mills with teeth sound louder than full flute end mills. I stay away.

These days I love necked 3/8 end mills from EMCO and Helical in Maritool shrink fit holders. LOC on these I like to be around 1/2" so I can take most of the time 1/2" deep cut and use full lute length. These sound quiet like that even at high feed rates. Light cuts and high feed. Also I notice increased noise while roughing if I cut with less than full flute depth with any tool so I try to avoid that whenever I can.

I use my brother in a both a job shop application and for production of some of my own stuff and I think it is a good machine for a small shop. It's my first CNC mill though and I come from a manual Bridgeport background so it is a huge step up in rigidity to me. When I look at the original picture of the op's tool holder and how far it is cantilevered out for roughing all I can say is I'd never do that. I have my rougher in a Maritool short tool holder. My tool holders all still look pretty much new. Heed the advice of short gage length as Frank Mari has said in many threads. If I had a reach problem I would put a slab of aluminum under my vise.

Also, I am a Brother CNC fan boy and I like to look at the Youtube videos of these machines cutting steel like crazy but I think these videos may feed the problem. They don't tend to use small tools and short gage length holders though. I suppose they know what they are doing, probably this setup is optimized to get the most out of the machine but for a job shop application that is not at all the situation.

Same here, i make my own products, but that's a small percentage. Majority is quick turn one off's, job shop type stuff. Hard to imagine anything faster to set up and run. More than 14 tools would be nice, but honestly, all my jobs are so different, i couldn't store that many drill bits in the changer anyway.

It's all relative I guess, compared to my previous hobbyish machine, the brother kicks ass in 303SS. Works great with these multi colored end mills

Nice and short projection. Not to say you would have any problem with a longer gage length tool holder. But let the cutting tool wear a little too much and then you will see the difference. Everyone sees these videos with a fresh setup with new inserts and new end mills. How about the other 80% of the tool life ????

How many videos on youtube are with the cutter at 50% life. Probably none.

Originally Posted by Pete Deal

I use my brother in a both a job shop application and for production of some of my own stuff and I think it is a good machine for a small shop. It's my first CNC mill though and I come from a manual Bridgeport background so it is a huge step up in rigidity to me. When I look at the original picture of the op's tool holder and how far it is cantilevered out for roughing all I can say is I'd never do that. I have my rougher in a Maritool short tool holder. My tool holders all still look pretty much new. Heed the advice of short gage length as Frank Mari has said in many threads. If I had a reach problem I would put a slab of aluminum under my vise.

Also, I am a Brother CNC fan boy and I like to look at the Youtube videos of these machines cutting steel like crazy but I think these videos may feed the problem. They don't tend to use small tools and short gage length holders though. I suppose they know what they are doing, probably this setup is optimized to get the most out of the machine but for a job shop application that is not at all the situation.

If you notice when they do like stainless steel with a face mill they are almost crawling.

Agree with Frank, and several of the other posters here.
Gotta be a machinist. Understand the tool one has, it's assets and limitations. Be smart about tool path/machining strategy, tool choice, tool holder, etc. If I have to run against the edge of the envelope, I do it very carefully.
My cycle times have been shorter by a lot using Speedios. I have zero regrets for choosing that brand of tool.
Make chips!

Update,

This was 100% from over torqued pull studs. I don't know how tight they were other than just snug,didn't have a socket to torque with.

I did some testing and and others did too and anything over 20 ft-lbs starts mushrooming the top of the holder causing poor contact and the fretting seen. I have since re torqued everything to 16 ft-lbs. Since then i'm getting nice even contact even with the same holder. Unfortunately the bottom 1/4" of the spindle taper is gone. I will be upgrading to big plus here soon.

It's really easy to see the ring on top of Mari's holders for some reason. I know Mari says 20-25 but that's too much.

If you have a Brother you should look at your holders and retorque if you have any ring on top. I run high force pull studs in all roughing holders too.

Originally Posted by Bigtoy302

Update,

This was 100% from over torqued pull studs. I don't know how tight they were other than just snug,didn't have a socket to torque with.

I did some testing and and others did too and anything over 20 ft-lbs starts mushrooming the top of the holder causing poor contact and the fretting seen. I have since re torqued everything to 16 ft-lbs. Since then i'm getting nice even contact even with the same holder. Unfortunately the bottom 1/4" of the spindle taper is gone. I will be upgrading to big plus here soon.

It's really easy to see the ring on top of Mari's holders for some reason. I know Mari says 20-25 but that's too much.

If you have a Brother you should look at your holders and retorque if you have any ring on top. I run high force pull studs in all roughing holders too.

So was that causing the taper to not quite seat as deep as it should?