Qualichem 250C acting differently?

Any other Qualichem 250C users feel like maybe they changed something?
I have noticed on my last drum that it is not acting anywhere near as "cleanly" as it used to.
Most notable a slimy brown film on everything. Nothing like Hangsterfers nasty brown sludge that turns to concrete.
But, not as pristine as it used to act. So much so, I am considering trying something new.

I have two sumps right now that are less than 2 weeks old. With skimmers in them.
And, it is already nasty enough that the tools on the carousel all have little brown drips hanging on them, and a slimy film.
And, parts are not blowing off as clean and dry as they used to. Only thing I can point my finger at is the 250C.

It is about time for a new drum. Almost empty. Not sure what to do here.
I have a buddy that had MSC come in his shop, and swap one machine over to Trim.
He uses the 250C as well. He said the Trim is much-much cleaner.

Don't know about the qualichem, but if you want to try something different I can't recommend Hysol MB50 highly enough. I do mostly aluminum so I can't speak to how well it works with other materials, but it has been top notch for us. I should mention we only 'top off' (1st tank was made with regular tap water) with dei water and I think that makes a difference.

Would the sales rep be forthcoming with any formulation changes?

I would ask the people you buy it from or call qualichem directly.

Call your qualichem rep. We had similar issues with the last two drums and they had a reason and took care of it. Qualichem seems to be a pretty "stand up" company.

We use 251c

chip_maker said:

Would the sales rep be forthcoming with any formulation changes?

I would ask the people you buy it from or call qualichem directly.

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FK said:

Call your qualichem rep. We had similar issues with the last two drums and they had a reason and took care of it. Qualichem seems to be a pretty "stand up" company.

We use 251c

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On my To-Doo list for the day. Which means it will probably happen Thursday

wheelieking71 said:

On my To-Doo list for the day. Which means it will probably happen Thursday

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Note to self....................

FWIW:

I have only ran Trim Sol for the last <25 yrs. That's the old skewl, brewed in the 50's "SOL".

If you have steel chips under the coolant line, it can react and go bad.

But let me tell yuh what - on our "alum only" mill - it hasn't been re-charged since ... 2010? Possibly 2009. During which time - it has set for months, and up to 2 yrs at a time - not even bubbled. Fire it up (after installing rebuilt Y axis motor, and completely dumping the control while trying to adjust the Y ZERO position (sucks not knowing your way around a new control - let me tell yuh!) added a few buckets of just water, and down the trail we went. In a matter of days - you would have thought that it was 2 weeks old! (That's 6 months ago)

We did recharge it when it was only 2 yrs old, and had sat for maybe <1 yr of that time. When we fired it back up - and topped it off - it was just not right. looking back - I think the problem at that time was most likely - just WAY too rich. I didn't use a scope on it, and quite honestly had very little experience with enclosed mills before - to understand that they don't need much "oil", and that most of the coolant loss is just evap. Now we just add a really low % mixture and all is SUPER!

It's oil based, so it doesn't eat the paint off your walls too!
Selling me on synthetic coolant will be a hard sell, but I will say - if someone was able to doo it - i'd be the guy from QualiChem - no doubt! He may be a blow hard, I don't know, but it sure seemed like he knew his shtuff, and it WAS even better than sliced bread! (IMTS)

If you want, I may be able to find the product number for the 54 gal drum from MSC.
It's not in the book last I knew... I'm sure it's a LOT cheaper than what you have now!
(not that it's cheap)

I pick up locally from the factory in Perrysburg (Toledo) but they ship truckload after truckload every day.


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Happy Master Chemical customer:
Ox

I took my nearly new Kurt vise to my day job because I needed a good vise to make the parts for the new customer we were courting at the time. We ran Trim Sol as well. It quickly turned the paint on my vise to goo, totally ruined it. It took me forever to finally get it, the goo paint, all off. Trim Sol can attack some paints. This was right before Kurt switched to powder coating their vises, which held up fine with the Trim Sol. C320 is my favorite flavor for milling any material, but I do mostly aluminum and plastic, way cleaner than Trim Sol.

Didn't end up needing to call after all. Aperently, Star-Metal-Fluids monitors PM.
Just had a friendly visit from the local rep's
And, they will be back tomorrow to do what they can to make it right.

Gawd, I hope they did not make any changes.

Spencer in NH said:

Gawd, I hope they did not make any changes.

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I am with you all the way. It's a good product. Sometimes I think the guys around here drink that stuff it's so good. We've had great service from our local Star Metal fluids representative.

Just as a side note, I have found that running the 250C at 12% takes care of a multitude of cutting problems for us.

EDM JOE said:

I am with you all the way. It's a good product. Sometimes I think the guys around here drink that stuff it's so good. We've had great service from our local Star Metal fluids representative.

Just as a side note, I have found that running the 250C at 12% takes care of a multitude of cutting problems for us.

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Hmmm, 12%? Really?
I try to keep it near 8-10%. I can usually tell when its getting low, because face mill will act up (90% aluminum here).
Super obvious in lathe when weak.
Unless cutting SAPPA in lathe. Then its orange-peel city, shit finish fest! no matter how strong its mixed.

It worked great drilling 3400 Ø.025 holes with carbide circuit board drills in some pretty tough Vanadis material. All I had available was 10000 R.P.M., but I would have preferred 20000+ R.P.M. for the job. I didn't break a single drill this time around, but normally at 8% I'd spend a quarter of my time burning out broken circuit board drills. If you ever want to see an EDM guy get faster at burning out drills just put him on a mill.

We do find that we can get a better surface finish in soft metals like aluminum when the coolant is mixed at 12% rather than 8%.

For the most part, water is what gets evaporated when we use and recirculate coolant. Often I just add fresh Deionized water to the sump, stir, and circulate. Our coolant doesn't tend to get too weak this way.

We had it in one of our CNC mills here and it lasted for about two and a half years. It still smelled like good coolant when I had to drain the sump to remove chips. There were so many chips I dumped the old coolant and made fresh for the refill rather than risk it spoiling due to some contamination from all the cleaning I did.

Yea, I have been using 250C since about 07' with zero complaints. Until now. (tap water only, ever)
My concerns were not breaking news to the Star guys. They said they will fix it.
I just drug up a big finger full of oil off the top of the tool-changer arm. And, that was all he needed to see.

wheelieking71 said:

Yea, I have been using 250C since about 07' with zero complaints. Until now. (tap water only, ever)
My concerns were not breaking news to the Star guys. They said they will fix it.
I just drug up a big finger full of oil off the top of the tool-changer arm. And, that was all he needed to see.

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We are using 245 (have been since 2011) but it sounds like the same goo I'm seeing
Maybe I should call my salesman.

I have been a convert since 2010 and I have been thinking the same thing. I have a brown film in the dip buckets, but not the thick film in the machine that you are talking about.
I do know it looks different coming out of the bucket. Keep us up to date as to what they say.
I ran some Doall that turned into jelly once. Kind of funny watching the auger just spinning around and around completely full moving nothing. They replaced the drum but the labor was days of cleaning.
Gary

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with this:

Press Releases | QualiChem (click the chlorinated paraffin's link)

I'm also checking out their literature, I'm wondering if they took out the surficants that help the stuff to drain so well?

I really hope that they didn't go and f' up a great product.

Well, yesterday a Star-metal-fluids guy, and a Qualichem guy, came to the shop.
They explained that there was indeed a window of production where inferior product was shipped.
The drum I was working from did come from within that window.
I purchased it a little over 10 months ago. It was down to just under 10 gallons left.
The qualichem guy explained what was going on to me. But, to be honest, it flew right over my head.

What matters is that, he said the issues have been resolved. And, they swapped my almost empty drum of flawed product, for a brand new drum of good product.
Cleaned out one sump, and re-filled. Apologized for what I dealt with over the last 10 months. And, went on their way.

What more could I ask for? This was one of, if not the, best customer service experiences I have ever had. In business, or otherwise.

I just hope that I have my wonderful 250C back. As I am real tired of the mess from the bad coolant I have been dealing with.

Couple things I learned: shelf life is about 1 year. And, if you mix manually in a bucket. Fill the bucket with water first, and add the concentrate on top of the water. I guess it emulsifies better that way. We used to put a little coolant in the bucket, fill a few inches of water on top of that. Then swirl that around to make sure the concentrate was good and mixed, then top off bucket with water. I guess it is better to just put the concentrate right in an already full bucket of water. He also said not to add straight water. Make sure you always add at least a little concentrate to the bucket when topping up the sump (I already knew that).

wheelieking71 said:

Well, yesterday a Star-metal-fluids guy, and a Qualichem guy, came to the shop.
They explained that there was indeed a window of production where inferior product was shipped.
The drum I was working from did come from within that window.
I purchased it a little over 10 months ago. It was down to just under 10 gallons left.
The qualichem guy explained what was going on to me. But, to be honest, it flew right over my head.

What matters is that, he said the issues have been resolved. And, they swapped my almost empty drum of flawed product, for a brand new drum of good product.
Cleaned out one sump, and re-filled. Apologized for what I dealt with over the last 10 months. And, went on their way.

What more could I ask for? This was one of, if not the, best customer service experiences I have ever had. In business, or otherwise.

I just hope that I have my wonderful 250C back. As I am real tired of the mess from the bad coolant I have been dealing with.

Couple things I learned: shelf life is about 1 year. And, if you mix manually in a bucket. Fill the bucket with water first, and add the concentrate on top of the water. I guess it emulsifies better that way. We used to put a little coolant in the bucket, fill a few inches of water on top of that. Then swirl that around to make sure the concentrate was good and mixed, then top off bucket with water. I guess it is better to just put the concentrate right in an already full bucket of water. He also said not to add straight water. Make sure you always add at least a little concentrate to the bucket when topping up the sump (I already knew that).

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Good deal! I run the 232 and love the stuff (and really don't want to go searching for a new coolant), glad they got it all worked out for you. Definitely a stand up company, and reseller.

And yes, remember OIL (Oil In Last).

*WHEW*

You had me scared for a minute there. I don't mind paying for the high-priced stuff, and right there is why.

Thank you for the report.