Qualichem 250C acting differently? - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    That was the first thing that popped in my head as well. Do you have to flush the Vactra? Or just run a skimmer for a while?
    It would be damn near impossible to remove the Vactra from the machine 100% without a complete tear-down.
    I suggest to my customers that they suck up there Vactra 2 and put the Hycut way oil in and run the machine for a week or 2 so that the majority of the Vactra cycles through. Then once you think the Oemeta Hycut is getting into the sump then you make the switch to their coolant.

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    There's really no reason to switch way lubes. If your running qualichem xtreme cut vactra 2 won't mix into the coolant at all. It floats to the top and skims off easily. After a few hours running the skimmer my coolant doesn't have any tramp oil on top. The coolant is pure white!

    You can abuse this stuff too. It doesn't matter if the machine sits for a few weeks. Turn the skimmer on for a bit, add a little makup coolant, and let er rip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edster View Post
    There's really no reason to switch way lubes. If your running qualichem xtreme cut vactra 2 won't mix into the coolant at all. It floats to the top and skims off easily. After a few hours running the skimmer my coolant doesn't have any tramp oil on top. The coolant is pure white!

    You can abuse this stuff too. It doesn't matter if the machine sits for a few weeks. Turn the skimmer on for a bit, add a little makup coolant, and let er rip.
    You don't understand Oemeta Hycut instantly emulsifies when it hits the coolant sump adding lubricity & oil content.

    So instead of the negatives of Vactra 2 or other conventional way oils creating tramp oil Oemeta Hycut way oil is like an automatic coolant topoff. Eliminating the need for skimmers & extra maintenance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shop Supply Guru View Post
    You don't understand Oemeta Hycut instantly emulsifies when it hits the coolant sump adding lubricity & oil content.

    So instead of the negatives of Vactra 2 or other conventional way oils creating tramp oil Oemeta Hycut way oil is like an automatic coolant topoff. Eliminating the need for skimmers & extra maintenance.
    Coolant tends to get richer with time due to evaporation. So, how does this help?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer in NH View Post
    Coolant tends to get richer with time due to evaporation. So, how does this help?
    If you don't make a lot of chips that's true. If you make a lot of chips on a regular basis you would use more oil than additives making your oil concentration low. If you are in a very hot shop or don't run a machine on a regular basis you would experience evaporation of your additives and your oil content would be on the high side.

    So the extra oil content isn't the main reason for the Hycut way oil it is just an added benefit. The main reason is to avoid tramp oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vettedude View Post
    I don't understand why anyone would do this, you may think it works for YOU but science says otherwise. A RO system costs almost nothing when you compare it to coolant cost.


    I would never even fill my tanks with tap-water+coolant, too many chlorides. Its like running an air system without a dryer, WHY...
    Hey vette, I definitely don't know the chemistry with the Denver water and coolant just wanted share that I wasn't having the separation issues shared earlier with tap water.

    That being said your comment has inspired me to check the chloride levels. Is rust the main issue with too high of chloride concentrations or are their other potential issues? I haven't seen any rust (or any other coolant related issues) with Qualichem or Hangsterfers coolant in Denver with tap wate but definitely want to do what's best for coolant performance and machine. Thanks for any info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BugRobotics View Post
    Hey vette, I definitely don't know the chemistry with the Denver water and coolant just wanted share that I wasn't having the separation issues shared earlier with tap water.

    That being said your comment has inspired me to check the chloride levels. Is rust the main issue with too high of chloride concentrations or are their other potential issues? I haven't seen any rust (or any other coolant related issues) with Qualichem or Hangsterfers coolant in Denver with tap wate but definitely want to do what's best for coolant performance and machine. Thanks for any info.
    Yes,

    corrosion is one part of it, but as your water becomes harder and harder, which happens over time if you are machining and water is evaporating you can get the below effect similar to a pool ( below photo).

    http://radiantpoolservice.com/i/605101_2057.JPG

    Also minerals can effect heat transfer properties negatively.

    Sodium Chloride and Water

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shop Supply Guru View Post
    You don't understand Oemeta Hycut instantly emulsifies when it hits the coolant sump adding lubricity & oil content.

    So instead of the negatives of Vactra 2 or other conventional way oils creating tramp oil Oemeta Hycut way oil is like an automatic coolant topoff. Eliminating the need for skimmers & extra maintenance.
    Yeah I do understand. And I wouldn't want way oil emulsifying into my coolant.

    Pretty much all soluble oil coolants have emulsifiers to keep the oil emulsified. That also causes conventional way oil to be partially emulsified into the coolant. A conventional skimmer won't remove emulsified way oil. At one point in time I had a portable centrifuge that I used to remove emulsified way oil. It worked good but was expensive and needed routine cleanings. Now I use a semi synthetic coolant (qualichem xtreme cut) and way oil doesn't emulsify it just separates and floats to the top. A cheap skimmer is all it takes to remove the way oil.

    I've tried a few newer formulation semi synthetics and they perform about the same in regard to oil separation. I liked qualichem better for various reasons, but I'm not locked into a particular brand of coolant now, or way oil. And I'm not messing with the makup of the coolant by having way oil emulsify into the coolant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edster View Post
    Yeah I do understand. And I wouldn't want way oil emulsifying into my coolant.

    Pretty much all soluble oil coolants have emulsifiers to keep the oil emulsified. That also causes conventional way oil to be partially emulsified into the coolant. A conventional skimmer won't remove emulsified way oil. At one point in time I had a portable centrifuge that I used to remove emulsified way oil. It worked good but was expensive and needed routine cleanings. Now I use a semi synthetic coolant (qualichem xtreme cut) and way oil doesn't emulsify it just separates and floats to the top. A cheap skimmer is all it takes to remove the way oil.

    I've tried a few newer formulation semi synthetics and they perform about the same in regard to oil separation. I liked qualichem better for various reasons, but I'm not locked into a particular brand of coolant now, or way oil. And I'm not messing with the makup of the coolant by having way oil emulsify into the coolant.
    I have 2 dozen personal customers who love this. Why would you not want to add lubricity and eliminate the need for skimmers? The Oemeta way oil is essentially the same product as the coolant less the additives (bacteriacides, stabilizers etc) so there is no need to separate it.

    Again no more skimmers........ no more tramp oil.......

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    Well, here I am 16 months later, still suffering with 250C.
    But, I'm switching.
    The motivating factor?

    20180417_070532.jpg

    That is the sump in the brand-new Brother. It was filled 3 months ago. Then sat idle until two days ago.
    Of course a lot of water had evaporated. But, the real issue is, the mix had separated.
    I ran it Sunday for about an hour. Before I ran it, I topped it up (took about 15 gallons) and let the chip-wash run for 15 mins.
    This coolant, looks, smells, feels, and acts like a many year old sump. Yet has been used to make about a 5 gallon buckets worth of 6061 chips.
    You guys that run good 250C know how a new sump feels. The coolant is white, with a blue tint to it when sitting on bare steel.
    Nice an clean, blows off clean and dry. Tools in the carousel are clean. It was good stuff.
    This sump is yellow, with concentrate separated and floating on top. The tools already have a dry gray film of nasty shit on them.
    And nothing blows off clean. Everything is nasty and slimy and sticky.
    It is disgusting really. unacceptable.

    And, then there is this:

    20180417_074650.jpg

    That tank was completely cleaned 6 weeks ago (pressure washed spotless), and filled with a fresh batch of 250C.
    The machine has ran almost every day since, and kept topped up, and concentrate monitored to 7-10%.
    It is also skimmed at least twice a week. I skim it at knight while the machine is idle because the belt skimmer works better when the machine is idle.
    When I skim, I get about two gallons of super nasty shit in 12 hours. It was skimmed two days ago, and that pic is 5 minutes ago.

    So, yea, I'm fed up. Should I have switched to DEI water by now? Yea, probably. But, they still say the first fill should be done with tap water.
    And, that would be the case with the Brother. I think I have every reason to switch.

    What chaps me? There are still tons of guys using 250C with no issues.
    And, I am not doing anything different than I ever did before I started having issues 3 years ago.

    At this point I can only blame myself for still dealing with this. But, still very frustrating.

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    Did you ever call your water company to find out if they did anything different?

    And your new Brother sat idle for 3 months

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    Did you ever call your water company to find out if they did anything different?

    And your new Brother sat idle for 3 months
    Was that Brother completely cleaned of off protective goo that they ship new machines with?

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    Are you running way lube oiled machines now - and maybe had greased machines before?

    I'm guessing that you at least have oiled machines now if you need to skim. On my mill(s) when running alum, I NEVER skim, and has been let to sit for 2 years or more at a time. (dedicated machine - but now torn down). Can't get away with that on an oiled machine.




    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaszub View Post
    Was that Brother completely cleaned of off protective goo that they ship new machines with?
    I wiped it down as best I could. But, completely cleaned? Impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post

    So, yea, I'm fed up. Should I have switched to DEI water by now? Yea, probably. But, they still say the first fill should be done with tap water.
    And, that would be the case with the Brother. I think I have every reason to switch.

    Just to put your mind at ease because you didn't use R.O. or D.I. water; We installed an R.O. system to make sure it was not our problem. It wasn't. We were using 251 and even tried 271 to make sure it wasn't just 251. Still same issues. We had enough and switched back to our old coolant. No more issues. In fact, I'm not even sure the R.O. did anything. I guess time will tell for coolant life maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Are you running way lube oiled machines now - and maybe had greased machines before?

    I'm guessing that you at least have oiled machines now if you need to skim. On my mill(s) when running alum, I NEVER skim, and has been let to sit for 2 years or more at a time. (dedicated machine - but now torn down). Can't get away with that on an oiled machine.




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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    The HAAS's are vactra-II. Always have been. The Brother is grease. But, it has ran for a total of about an hour.
    The sump in the Brother got in that condition just sitting there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    The HAAS's are vactra-II. Always have been. The Brother is grease. But, it has ran for a total of about an hour.
    The sump in the Brother got in that condition just sitting there.

    Well, like said - that could be related to cosmoline?

    I would be more concerned about how it is acting in your everyday machines.

    I know that my coolant is night/day different between oiled and greased machines.
    Especially if running alum - or at least "not steel". I'm guessing that a dedicated SS machine wouldn't have much contaminates either.


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Currently running 251C with regular tap and haven't had any issues. Even when the machine was left idle for a few weeks. Mine is the blue variety though?

    Sorry to see you've had so many issues. You're definitely a more patient man than I am. I would have been done with them a long time ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I wiped it down as best I could. But, completely cleaned? Impossible.
    Totaly undersatnd it, yes even if you use Di water as I do, you still want to do first fill with tap water "recomended"
    DO you have any kind of skimmer running? It really does help.
    Long time ago I use to have Safety Clean come in and take my shit away every 6 months (about $450.oo a drum with 3 machines)
    I do 1 drum a year with 4 machines running 75% of the time, sure 1 is full time grease rest ISO 68 way lube (no Vactra#2)
    So instead of changing your coolant if you like it it is time for new LUBE!

    Oops just read your last post....brother = "grease little bastard" it is probably contamination from cosmo.
    I still refuse to put Mobil Vactra 2 in any of my machines....over 30 years with different coolants (6-8 brands) and nothing but trouble using Mobil.
    Pump it out, flush --> clean---> pump out---> re fill with new mix, at this point that is all you can do.

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    I use "68" as well.
    Just local blend oil dealer.

    Never used Vactra. (Kan't imagine that it's that much diff?)


    ---------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox


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