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Quality difference of collets?

MRudisill

Plastic
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Recently set up a new Haas SMM2 at work. Bought a nice tooling set from Maritool. Budget is tightened up with the COVID stuff going on now. Only got half the tooling we originally planned to.

We need more collets, but the Maritool collet sets are $200+ or about $20 per collet. I find other sets online that only end up being $4 or so a collet. We mainly cut aluminum, have a 10k spindle, do prototyping, not production, but want to take things seriously and get the best cuts possible, not just meet a "that will do" standard.

Are there major differences in the actual collets? Are there specific specs I should look for when looking at collets? Or is a collet a collet and I just end up over paying from some of the big names?

Same question for Pull studs. Can spend $20 a piece, or get a set of 10 for $35. Cant imagine there is that big of a difference in simple pull studs or collets.
 
Recently set up a new Haas SMM2 at work. Bought a nice tooling set from Maritool. Budget is tightened up with the COVID stuff going on now. Only got half the tooling we originally planned to.

We need more collets, but the Maritool collet sets are $200+ or about $20 per collet. I find other sets online that only end up being $4 or so a collet. We mainly cut aluminum, have a 10k spindle, do prototyping, not production, but want to take things seriously and get the best cuts possible, not just meet a "that will do" standard.

Are there major differences in the actual collets? Are there specific specs I should look for when looking at collets? Or is a collet a collet and I just end up over paying from some of the big names?

Same question for Pull studs. Can spend $20 a piece, or get a set of 10 for $35. Cant imagine there is that big of a difference in simple pull studs or collets.

I would not skimp on pullstuds. You break one and you will know why...

As far as collets, they are expensive. I don't think you need to go to something like Big Kaiser or Lyndex, but I would not buy ebay 'bargain' brands either...
 
If you think $20 per collet is expensive, then you haven't looked around much.
There is a reason you seen some for $4 each, and those $4 collets belong in the trash can....or on a Swiss Mak machine.
 
This trade isn't for the faint of heart... or light of wallet. :D

$20 isn't bad for a collet. Wait until you need that $300 carbide endmill and you break it on the first part. :eek:

I think we buy collets and collet chucks every few months to $500-$1000 an order. Just bought a digital height gage to the tune of $500+, then realized we didn't have a indicator dovetail clamp 'thingy' so ordered a $200 indicator kit with clamps and dovetail stems.
 
O trust me, I much prefer to stick to single brand, nice sets, etc.

But a several thousand dollar open budget was just turned to needing approval for every $10 purchase. So just looking for info. If it means we get 3 pull studs instead of 10, so be it. We can build a collection over time. Just also use this as an excuse to hear what people have to say and learn about even the little details.

Reading specs, not sure how much of a difference things like "alloy spring steel" versus "carbon steel" make with collets and thats about the only difference I see in specs, besides the .0006 versus .0003 runout.
 
I definitely understand. Worked briefly at a big manufacturing plant, contantly cutting hardened steels and working on a massive scale. Burning through hundreds of dollars of carbide inserts was a daily thing. I am now however at a much smaller place that mainly does prototying. We were functioning off of a Tormach PCNC 1100 (not even a tool changer) until just last week when we got the Haas SMM2 up and running if that gives you an idea.

I am also having to research a lot more. The last place I just wrote the CNC program and things were pretty well laid out, what material, what speeds, what tooling, etc. Here... everything is on me to decide and tinker with so a big learning curve.
 
O trust me, I much prefer to stick to single brand, nice sets, etc.

But a several thousand dollar open budget was just turned to needing approval for every $10 purchase.

Pack yer shit. Try a healthier US State. While there still ARE some! Not a money issue. Stupidity, rather.

Flat-rating at a HUNDRED bucks was a sign of incompetent management if ever was, and at money values of over 30 years ago.

Ten bucks - in 2020? That's a bankrupty already in progress. Whether they know they've strapped-on the suicide kit yet, or will never notice in time.

Times have turned to shite, yah simply say "all purchases go through..." and do NOT set any "numbers" at all. Folks ponder over them, elsewhere, come back to yah with a question or three if you didn't clearly explain what you recommended and why.

Hired Manager hides those discussion, plus any fight he has to carry to cover stuff. "Balance" is part of his Day Job. Also a "morale" thing. Has to be seen to be DOING the job, not abdicating 'coz it is"hard".

Bizness OWNER or CEO take his own GUTS in his teeth, bites down HARD.. and makes the best "survival" decision he is able to make. HARD decisions are HIS most important "Day Job". Janitor can sort which direction to push a broom.

Purpose of a bizness is to generate revenue.

Anything as costs less than what it earns net-net is fair-game.

Wise Manager conveys the GOALS, then drops that monkey of a decision square onto the shoulders of those closest to each challenge and with the highest degree of knowledge he has under-roof as to what works to "make it so". THEN puts his ASS on the line to back-up his best people. "Day Job" thing. Again.

(S)he does NOT flat-rate a dynamic equation.

Surely not at the price of one Chinese carryout lunch that WILL ALWAYS be turned to shit within a single day.

TEN BUCKS?

That's not right. It isn't even close enough to "sane" to be classed as "wrong".
 
Pack yer shit. Try a healthier US State. While there still ARE some!

Flat-rating at a HUNFRED bucks is a sign of incompetent management if ever was.
Ten bucks is a bankrupty already in progress. Whehter they know it yet, or never.

Purpose of a bizness is to generate revenue.

Anything as costs less than what it earns net-net is fair-game.

Wise Manager conveys the GOALS, then drops that monkey of a decision square onto the shoulders of those closest to each challenge and with the highest degree of knowledge he has under-roof as to what works to "make it so".

(S)he does NOT flat-rate a dynamic equation.

Surely not at the price of one Chnese carryout lunch that WILL ALWAYS be turned to shit within a single day.

Trying to sort out what you are saying.... :confused:

I think I get it, BUT I worked at a company that had annual revenues (at the time) of 18billion. They were just like OP said, need 3 signatures and 2 meetings to buy a $30 endmill. In the mean time, they spent around 70million for a project overseas... :crazy: Almost all mazaks, couple cnc grinders, sandvik capto tooling and sandvik coolant thru drills to drill thru .25" thick flanges in aluminum. :nutter:
 
Pack yer shit. Try a healthier US State. While there still ARE some!

Flat-rating at a HUNDRED bucks is a sign of incompetent management if ever was.
Ten bucks is a bankrupty already in progress. Whehter they know it yet, or never.

Times have turned to shite, yah simply say "all purchases go through..." and do NOT set any "numbers" at all.

Purpose of a bizness is to generate revenue.

Anything as costs less than what it earns net-net is fair-game.

Wise Manager conveys the GOALS, then drops that monkey of a decision square onto the shoulders of those closest to each challenge and with the highest degree of knowledge he has under-roof as to what works to "make it so".

(S)he does NOT flat-rate a dynamic equation.

Surely not at the price of one Chnese carryout lunch that WILL ALWAYS be turned to shit within a single day.

TEN BUCKS?

That's not right. It isn't even close enough to "sane" to be classed as "wrong".

Yea, my point was spending has tightened a lot. Company is doing amazing, but making temporary changes to better handle the COVID situation. We just dropped money for a new Haas, but I want to be able to justify why we need A over B when B is 1/10 the cost.
 
Trying to sort out what you are saying.... :confused:

Calm down, Mike. That's normal for him...... :D

>>>OP. You have received good advice in this thread.
You won't go wrong with anything from Maritool, Techniks, Parlec, Dorian, Lyndex, etc.
Suffer once when you pay for it and you won't suffer later.
 
Yea, my point was spending has tightened a lot. Company is doing amazing, but making temporary changes to better handle the COVID situation. We just dropped money for a new Haas, but I want to be able to justify why we need A over B when B is 1/10 the cost.

Short answer was already given by others: So you don't FUCK UP the new Haas so much coin was invested in off the back of a fail in unpredictable Chicom tooling.

Longer answer:

When B is not equal to A, "price" (which is NOT "cost") is not the comparison as is even presented.

Risk of damage to an EXPENSIVE machine-tool is FAR greater even than risk of higher scrap rate or greater life-cycle costs over how long A lasts vs B, replaced far more often.

There is fully-burdened man and machine time involved in pausing for replacements. Repairs may be required. More expense, downtime, missed RDD, lost income.

There are administrative costs to ordering more often ELSE buying more in larger batches for greater depth of spares to support shorter-lived goods.

See why "unit price to acquire" is not the same thing as "life-cycle cost to use"?

BTW - MariTool are not just "damned good tools". They are f**king gorgeous tools, right down to the "Made in USA" primo decision-maker for ME.
 
Short answer was already given by others: So you don't FUCK UP the new Haas so much coin was invested in off the back of a fail in unpredictable Chicom tooling.

Longer answer:

When B is not equal to A, "price" (which is NOT "cost") is not the comparison as is even presented.

Risk of damage to an EXPENSIVE machine-tool is FAR greater even than risk of higher scrap rate or greater life-cycle costs over how long A lasts vs B, replaced far more often.

There is fully-burdened man and machine time involved in pausing for replacements. Repairs may be required. More expense, downtime, missed RDD, lost income.

There are administrative costs to ordering more often ELSE buying more in larger batches for greater depth of spares to support shorter-lived goods.

See why "unit price to acquire" is not the same thing as "life-cycle cost to use"?

BTW - MariTool are not just "damned good tools". They are f**king gorgeous tools, right down to the "Made in USA" primo decision-maker for ME.

Thanks for the feedback. Yea the cost of one mistake or broken piece can be intense. I hope to avoid that obviously. But being newer, and also plan to slowly do my own thing on the side, things like "o this will work just fine but a .002 tolerance versus a .0004 with this" are things I pay a lot of attention to. You're right though, explaining costs by emphasizing the long term cost of a less expensive piece breaking or malfunctioning is a perfect way to pitch it.

In the end, it's just going to come down to having a few less pieces of high quality versus an arsenal of cheaper stuff. Also appreciate the comment with Maritool. I don't have decades of experience with tons of different brands. The lab tech at the college I went to strongly recommended Maritool and I trusted them. Good to get some more feedback on them. I will just pursue keeping all tooling through them.
 
My choice for all things tool holder related are big Kaiser then maritiool.

Those are the only two brands I approve for purchase in my shop unless it's a specialty item.

On a tight budget.... Maritiool is the only way to go. If you cant afford them then you can't afford to CNC machine

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
Trying to sort out what you are saying.... :confused:

I think I get it, BUT I worked at a company that had annual revenues (at the time) of 18billion. They were just like OP said, need 3 signatures and 2 meetings to buy a $30 endmill. In the mean time, they spent around 70million for a project overseas... :crazy: Almost all mazaks, couple cnc grinders, sandvik capto tooling and sandvik coolant thru drills to drill thru .25" thick flanges in aluminum. :nutter:

"The neck of a bottle is to be found at the top".

Their Corporate culture was f**ked. Fat, not lean, "risk averse" be-you-rock-rats tripping over their malformed concept of job security.

Real job security is simply "winning". Do it again, better, more profitably, and faster. Repeat until new goals are set. Or until "all fall down" day.

It is properly done much like Creighton Abrams' dash to Bastogne. No time for prisoners. God might have had mercy on anyone who got in his way, but his boss hadn't thought to include any of that in the ammunition ration.

$78 million 1993 USD took me 3 hours to sort from a cold-start, and I ordered an EFT generated, For $78 million. One go. No paperwork. My phone call. It was what they were paying me to be able to do, so that call was good enough.

I was not personally "special". The JOB was not even that "special". The requirement of that SITUATION was what was "special".

Too many folk forget that.

Many grow to think they somehow "OWN" a rank or a role or an authority as if it had grown into their PERSONAL, physical, bones and the skin of their ass.

That is never really true.

Anyone is only as good as their most-recent success - plus "part of" whatever they have saved-up in "credit" measured by those with whom they deal.

If not fired or retired FIRST? All-hands will come to a day where they just up and die. Regardless of title or wage!

:)

Employers?

About a dozen employers, here. Northrop the first and largest. Cable & Wireless the last I had anyone else to answer to but the stockholders. All four of them.

:)

Not all small ones were smart. Not all big ones were dumb.

But small firm or larger, "ran a major part of" not just "worked at".

Different viewpoints are natural.

I was always one of the "change agent" imports meant to improve over something not running as well as it needed to do. And/or prepare for the FUTURE, not the present. Now and then it was a "train wreck already in long, slow progress". Those can be interesting. Somebody has to deal with them.

IOW, fixing what others could only grumble about, avoiding cause for future grumble, was "Job One", everywhere I went.

As with any OTHER tasking on-planet. someone who CAN do that, and WILL do that, regardless of obstacles, and even if companies need to be bought, sold, reorganized or liquidated outright, Seniour folks terminations with shrinks in attendance included...

.... is whom gets put into such jobs.

I say again: "Imported".

Only one exception, actually. Engaged to piss on a singular "major forest fire", did so. Installed a new team. Stayed on. Interesting times, pace of technology, healthy growth among people, and a nicely diverse company. Moved on though several other titles, easily twice as many functional roles in ten years, three C&W entities.

In the beginning .. I had not been BAD at pumping gas, fixing IC engines & transmissions, ... "making chips" and such.

Making hard decisions fast and well didn't just PAY a whole f**k of a lot better!

..it was REALLY, REALLY a greatly more interesting thing to do!

And I was one who got bored all too easily and too soon on the small s**t anyway.
As they say "It's ALL 'small shit'", too!

:D

Cannot STAND repetitive work. Want to fixture, automate, then delegate, and move-on to a NEW "onesie", be it tool & die making, job shop (repair)...R&D, Product design & devel...new department, division, or whole company-making.

To a "change agent" all those things actually have a lot in common.

Assess, research, plan, organize, execute, and monitor/control for results.

Train others to SUSTAIN that so they can keep up "normal" forward progress or a bit better...

Payday. Profit-sharing and stock options appreciated even more than a high salary.

And on to the next..

:D
 
If you can afford a new haas you can afford $20 collets. You will want to buy a good set of collets eventually, might as well do it now and be done with it.

When I started I was on a very tight budget and bought some chinese er collets. They are not that great, but some of them are usable. Every single collet needs to be checked for runout before using. I tossed maybe 25% of them. Chinese er16 collets are nearly free on ebay so you have more time then money right now cant hurt too much to try.

Forget about chinese pullstuds.
 
If you can afford a new haas you can afford $20 collets. You will want to buy a good set of collets eventually, might as well do it now and be done with it.
Even more to that.. If you have just placed an expensive bet for a portion of your bizness future on what that Haas is meant to DELIVER?

Don't start off by crippling it!

There seem to be two distinct "schools of thought" on selecting the means of production:

- Find the absolute LOWEST price.. then see if you are forced by poor quality to move up even ONE grade, or can slither under the door with same-shit-different cheap-ass source. Limp along, getting the best you can out of it for long years.. And pat yerself on the back as a f*****g economic genius the whole while.

OR

- Find the absolute BEST QUALITY known. Then scout to see if the next step down is "good enough", and better value for money. If not, buy the best as can be had. Then run the HELL out of it to coin money. Because it will stand up to that.

Downside to the second approach? Nobody calls you a f**king genius.

They just vote with their repeat bizness for high-grade, on-spec, on-time, every-time DELIVERY ... and more money, next go.

Tough job, succeeding can be.

But SOMEBODY has to do it, yah?

:D
 
It depends on the type of work you are doing, I once had a job to mill 75,000 inches of .250" wide x .250" deep slots in 304 stainless. First pass with a collet chuck and the endmill burnt up(.0002-.001" runout is normal) after about 60". Then switched to a Big Kaiser hydraulic holder with a perfect jet seal .000000001" runout collet with perfect coolant delivery and the job was gravy lol.

Drilling holes with hss into a block of aluminum = wiggle room for sure.
Drilling 30 x D through a $100,000.00 part = buy the best tool available.

There is no one size fits all solution to machining, maybe you need a mix of low end and high end tooling. But low end collets can damage a high end toolholder or even a spindle over time if it causes vibration for every operation.
 
What's the dollar value of the time spent questioning and justifying a $10 purchase, including the delays waiting for emails to be read and responded to? Bet it's a lot more than $10.
 
Then switched to a Big Kaiser hydraulic holder with a perfect jet seal .000000001" runout collet.

I'm trying to decide which :icon_bs: is being stated here. Please clarify, as I don't want to call someone out on the wrong-wrongness. I'm pretty sure that says 1/1,000,000,000 (or One Billionth) with a "B"of TIR. I have got to get better Metrology equipment!!!

R
 








 
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