Question for any experienced machinst

Zoob · Apr 27, 2020

Hello!

I'm very new to this so please bare with me here. I'm interested in becoming a machinist. My goal is to be able to buy my own CNC machine in order to start my own knife company. The local community college offers a CNC program and I was thinking about starting there. Are those programs typically worth the time?

I want to purchase my own shop and machine about 3 years from now. I have the funds and the time and I want this to be an operation ran only by my wife and I. The goal is to be able to run that machine by myself by that time and not have to hire a machinist to run things for me. I work 3 months on 3 months off so I plan on using my time off to educate myself and potentially take some of these college courses/apprentice/whatever you guys suggest.Is this dream of mine possible? Am I crazy to assume I can solely operate a CNC mill and maybe a lathe within 3 years from now?

Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks for your time guys.

mayu · Apr 27, 2020

Zoob said:
Am I crazy to assume I can solely operate a CNC mill and maybe a lathe within 3 years from now?

Absolutely not. Start with a used machine. You'd be surprised how cheap they are. Reach out to shops and see if they're looking to sell any of their machines. For knives you don't need a large machine. What's the worst that can happen? Failure is better than regret.

Zoob · Apr 27, 2020

Thanks for the encouraging words! I've scoped out the price of some used machines I'm not worried about money or funding really, more so that when I decide to do this I'm gonna go all in. So I don't want to spend months and months hitting snags that halt my operation due to my lack of knowledge or experience.

Dupa3872 · Apr 27, 2020

Hi Z00b, Welcome

Many of us have started off with one machine and we all had the same crazy dream. This is your dream so follow it with care and passion, care first. I started with my total savings of 20 grand after working in a job shop for seven years. I was twenty five years old and had to learn it the hard way on the go.

Plan as best you can and stay here to read as much as you can. Today you can learn so much on line, Check this guy out Free CNC Training Courses | Titans of CNC This man is teaching and has a story very similar to mine.Check out his You tube Channel he has a lot to offer beyond making chips.

Take your time and make educated decisions. Stay away from debt and don't get over your head. If you plan to only make your own product it will take some time to pay yourself back for the initial outlay in cash but it would be good to be your own banker and answer to only yourself. Keep the day job.

Make Chips Boys !

Ron

EOLSON · Apr 27, 2020

I don't know what kind of reputation your local college has, but for me it was absolutely worth it. In my case, I gained more than just education, I gained a local reputation for being an excellent machinist and more job opportunities than I could know what to do with. Make sure they offer classes for CAM programming as well, if you plan on being a one man band that's something you will need to know and is very difficult to learn in industry since typically programmers do not work in the shop with machinists and usually don't take trainees.

Also, I would recommend that you try to get your foot in the door at a local shop in those 3 months off. (Maybe a different one every 3 months, that might be just long enough to evaluate if its worth sticking around) Be transparent that you can only be there for 3 months, and take the job even if its sweeping the floor, cleaning machines, machine maintenance, etc. You won't be paid much but its totally worth it, you'll learn things in a shop that you will not in school and vise versa.

Definitely not crazy, a 3 year timeline is more than doable but you will have to work for it. I think the biggest hurdle you will have is nailing down the programming (CAM) side of things. Be sure you have enough funds around for a subscription to your preferred software (for me Mastercam and Solidworks) the good ones cost a pretty penny.

Good luck with your venture man!

Zoob · Apr 27, 2020

Thanks, Ron!

I'll be sure to check out that online resource that you provided.

-Sam

mayu · Apr 27, 2020

Don't forget you can also use 3D printing for prototyping. You can fit a 3D printer in a bedroom.

Zoob · Apr 27, 2020

Thanks dude! This was very useful. I will look into the course locally and see about programming as I will need to be proficient in that in order to make my designs come to life.

DMF_TomB · Apr 27, 2020

I would recommend
.
1) work for others gaining experience and training. you learn more (10 to 1000x more) normally working with others. old apprentice and journeyman ways you learn much more seeing how a lot of different people and shops do stuff as you are much more limited only learning by yourself. obviously you won't work with a lot million $ equipment if in a small shop
.
2) work a job and get paid and save move in 401K retirement account, also a bank savings account being first goal to have enough to get by for 6 month emergencies and eventually for longer length emergencies. like farmers would save 1/7 for a bad year and eventually save for 3 bad years in a row. many self employed retire with no savings and never made much their whole career
.
3) reality is modern manufacturing you need a lot of optimum modern expensive equipment either purchase or lease and need to buy materials in bulk, manufacture in large lots for lower unit price and need to sell in large amounts to be competitive. recognize the limits of your probable sales that is if you sell 100 items and nobody need any more what you make you will go broke. need to recognize long term market demand for any product. also a competitor can come along next year selling for 50% of the price you trying to sell products at
.
have a hobby is ok but dont but $100,000 in equipment to make maybe $50,000in sales. purchased equipment deprecates whether used or not. few want to buy used old machines at a high price. often lucky to sell and get 1/2 what you paid back. where as money invested in 401K makes usually a long term 6% above inflation rate return on investment. thats is the same $100,000 invested at 6% usually will double every 12 years give or take rather that depreciate and be worth < $50,000 after 12 years
.
learn compound interest math, the difference between rich and poor is mostly who understands math and who invests in many different things. dont put all your money in one thing, bank, investment etc in case it fails. many self employed people are investing everything in themselves. that alone is usually a bad ideal.
.
furniture or cabinet maker is example small shop makes a cabinet for $1000. never going to compete with big shop with better equipment making $300 cabinets, ........another example guy cuts metal with saw takes 1 minute a cut plus blade costs competing with shop with hydraulic ironworker cutting metal 1 second per cut and shear blades last a decade. literally shop with better equipment can easily
1) buy raw material cheaper (much cheaper) in bulk
2) manufacture 10x faster and much cheaper
3) sell in bulk making a much higher % of profit

Zoob · Apr 27, 2020

Thanks for the tips TomB. I'll look into bulk and material pricing as well. Finances aren't an issue for me but I appreciate your kind words nonetheless!

Kingbob · Apr 27, 2020

Where in LA are you? I'm in the Houma / Thibodeaux area.

Zoob · Apr 27, 2020

Wow small world. I live in Denham Springs. Born in Lafayette. Raised in Houma.

Kingbob · Apr 27, 2020

Zoob said:
Wow small world. I live in Denham Springs. Born in Lafayette. Raised in Houma.

Well keep your eyes peeled because with the down turn in oil used equipment in this area should get pretty cheap.

I've been a machinist for 20 years and I run my family's machine shop. If you have any questions on your path to getting set up feel free to ask, I'm bobbymoate on instagram - that's probably the best way to contact me or dm me here and I can get you my email address.

Zoob · Apr 27, 2020

Awesome thanks man. I'll shoot you a DM.

Kingbob · Apr 27, 2020

No problem, and to answer your initial question , yes I think if you have the head for it you can get to where you want to be in 3 years time as long as you use your time off wisely.

precisionmetal · Apr 27, 2020

Zoob,

It may help you to read up on how Gough Knives was started. Behind The Scenes – Gough Custom

Aaron posts frequently here, and is a wealth of information and an open book on how he got where he is. He makes a gorgeous knife too (I'm lucky enough to own one).

PM

G00 Proto · Apr 27, 2020

I started with one POS CNC machine in 2005. I had been a machinist and engineer for the 10 years prior to that. I continued on with my "day job" for quite a few years and worked at night and weekends (until I couldn't stand it any longer). Over time, I added more machines and upgraded the old. I now have more machines than I can effectively run at one time and as much business as I want to do. Because of this, I have been able to cherry pick the jobs that I want to do. I pick jobs that I can do more efficiently than other shops because I have invested in more advanced machines and programming software (and the decades of experience to maximize the programs). I generally make a pretty solid hourly rate, and don't work when I don't want to. I have also been very lucky developing products that I marketed myself, or with strategic business partners. Quite frankly, these ventures have been much more draining, but have yield 10x the return on investment.

If I could only make one suggestion, it would be to go into this with as much savings as humanly possible. This will give you flexibility to invest in your education, cherry pick jobs that you want to do, and have available cash to capitalize on good opportunities.

Get your education however you see fit. Some community colleges are decent and some absolutely suck. Go for a couple of weeks. If you feel you are wasting your time, walk out and demand a refund. Same with jobs. Be absolutely mercenary. Work for a couple of months and if you are not constantly learning new skills and figuring out the business, give your notice and move on.

Zoob · Apr 27, 2020

Very cool. I enjoyed the youtube videos. Quite informative.

SIM · Apr 27, 2020

Books, courses, and watching U-tube video's al help.

But the only way to really learn is hands-on and make something. The gents recommending you take a job at a machine shop are right on the money.
School courses can be great but even the best ones...

It's like learning to drive to take the road test compared to learning how to drive in the real world.

In any case, this here forum is a great place to ask questions. You'll get good bad and everything in between...you'll have to sort though it...but more often then not its worth it.

Guest · Apr 27, 2020

DMF_TomB said:
I would recommend
.
1) work for others gaining experience and training. you learn more (10 to 1000x more) normally working with others. old apprentice and journeyman ways you learn much more seeing how a lot of different people and shops do stuff as you are much more limited only learning by yourself. obviously you won't work with a lot million $ equipment if in a small shop
.
2) work a job and get paid and save move in 401K retirement account, also a bank savings account being first goal to have enough to get by for 6 month emergencies and eventually for longer length emergencies. like farmers would save 1/7 for a bad year and eventually save for 3 bad years in a row. many self employed retire with no savings and never made much their whole career
.
3) reality is modern manufacturing you need a lot of optimum modern expensive equipment either purchase or lease and need to buy materials in bulk, manufacture in large lots for lower unit price and need to sell in large amounts to be competitive. recognize the limits of your probable sales that is if you sell 100 items and nobody need any more what you make you will go broke. need to recognize long term market demand for any product. also a competitor can come along next year selling for 50% of the price you trying to sell products at
.
have a hobby is ok but dont but $100,000 in equipment to make maybe $50,000in sales. purchased equipment deprecates whether used or not. few want to buy used old machines at a high price. often lucky to sell and get 1/2 what you paid back. where as money invested in 401K makes usually a long term 6% above inflation rate return on investment. thats is the same $100,000 invested at 6% usually will double every 12 years give or take rather that depreciate and be worth < $50,000 after 12 years
.
learn compound interest math, the difference between rich and poor is mostly who understands math and who invests in many different things. dont put all your money in one thing, bank, investment etc in case it fails. many self employed people are investing everything in themselves. that alone is usually a bad ideal.
.
furniture or cabinet maker is example small shop makes a cabinet for $1000. never going to compete with big shop with better equipment making $300 cabinets, ........another example guy cuts metal with saw takes 1 minute a cut plus blade costs competing with shop with hydraulic ironworker cutting metal 1 second per cut and shear blades last a decade. literally shop with better equipment can easily
1) buy raw material cheaper (much cheaper) in bulk
2) manufacture 10x faster and much cheaper
3) sell in bulk making a much higher % of profit

Why don't you do us all a favor and stop posting in threads like this. You post the same crap, over and over and over again. No one cares about how much money you make or how much you have saved. Some of us do not like nepotism, work place politics, and everything else involved with working for the man. I would rather drop dead working for myself, flat broke at the age of 80 than put up with taking orders from anyone but myself.

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