Recommened Speedio Options-Chip Conveyor?
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    Default Recommened Speedio Options-Chip Conveyor?

    Hey guys,

    We're looking at getting a S500X1 (which are on sale now if anyone is interested) and I'm curious what options current owners wouldn't want to live without. As background, we currently use a Sharp 2412. It does what we need and is a really rugged little machine, but this would be a huge leap in speed and thoughput.

    Number one question is a chip conveyor. After our first Haas that didn't have any chip extraction the screw on the Sharp was a big improvement. Then we got a lathe with an actual belt chip conveyor But the S500X1 is already at the top range of our budget, and the LNS conveyors are another $10K.

    I've heard some machines (mainly Robodrills) are well enough designed that the chips flow out and it's not such a big issue. How are the Speedios? We do some aluminum plate work that makes a fair bit of chips, but we also are drill//tap and chamfering stainless laser cut parts that makes very little chips, along with some plastics that come out easy enough with a shop vac. So how necessary is it?

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    Hey guys,

    We're looking at getting a S500X1 (which are on sale now if anyone is interested) and I'm curious what options current owners wouldn't want to live without. As background, we currently use a Sharp 2412. It does what we need and is a really rugged little machine, but this would be a huge leap in speed and thoughput.

    Number one question is a chip conveyor. After our first Haas that didn't have any chip extraction the screw on the Sharp was a big improvement. Then we got a lathe with an actual belt chip conveyor But the S500X1 is already at the top range of our budget, and the LNS conveyors are another $10K.

    I've heard some machines (mainly Robodrills) are well enough designed that the chips flow out and it's not such a big issue. How are the Speedios? We do some aluminum plate work that makes a fair bit of chips, but we also are drill//tap and chamfering stainless laser cut parts that makes very little chips, along with some plastics that come out easy enough with a shop vac. So how necessary is it?

    Thanks.
    I can vouch for that ^ on the one I ran. Not familiar with the Brother machines in general, but I would hate to be without a chip conveyor unless the machine is really designed around not needing one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    Hey guys,

    We're looking at getting a S500X1 (which are on sale now if anyone is interested) and I'm curious what options current owners wouldn't want to live without.
    Must-haves (IMO) ...
    Tool setter
    CTSI prep (you get the largest coolant tank and the wall washdown system)
    MPG
    Top cover

    Depending on your facility ...
    Both worklights
    Mist collector

    Regards.

    Mike

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    I can tell you this: DO NOT waste $16k on the Mayfran Clean-Sweep if you produce any small to fine chips at all.
    It would probably be an okay conveyor on a lathe. But, it is terrible on a mill cutting aluminum with small tools.

    Otherwise, I agree with Mike. MPG, and TSC are must haves. If I was doing it again, I would go big-plus.
    Work lights and mist collector are easy to add yourself. And, MUCH cheaper!
    Yamazen made it very easy to add the work lights like they are factor, operating with the control panel switch and everything.

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    The Brothers use wash to move the swarf out of the machine into a pan in the back. That replaces augers on some machines. Any conveyor is for handling chips on the outside of the machine. The deal with conveyors is, they work well when they are selected for specific materials and designed for that material. As in, the cheap one on our quotes sucks at aluminum. My advice, is no conveyor and listen to the other guys about the options you will use daily except TSC. Not available on the machine you are looking at. My go to= MPG, one work light, wash gun and tool setter. You can always add a conveyor later.

    Andy
    Yamazen

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    Also, very few of the special priced S500 are left.

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    I wouldn't bother with a Speedio without TSC unless you're putting a very specific know family of parts on it that don't have drilled holes.

    Our must haves are:
    TSC
    Spindle/Table Probes (make sure to get Yamazen macros for these the Blum programs we got suck)
    MPG
    Amano Mist Collector

    Spindle Override is an honorable mention
    If you're going to cut a lot of steel, get the 10k High Torque (I regularly stall our 16k standard spindles with 2" Seco Turbo Mills in some materials LOL)

    If you are drilling and tapping a lot I would add a BK Mikro to the list for broken tool detection.

    We only have issues with chips when we're doing deep axial DOC and low radial stepover where we get those long thin chips that like to nest together. We sometimes have to stop running the machine to push chips down the chutes. We have the problem seldom when we run the chip wash in the cabinet, but we honestly just forget to turn it on most of the time!

    #speediomafia

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    Wow, thanks for the replies, really appreciate the help.

    Sounds like we can skip the conveyor, pretty uniform consent on that. And that was the biggest uncertainty I had.

    On TSC- I didn't realize it wasn't an option, so that clears it up that question. I understand it being critical to really get the full advantage of what a Brother can do, but for the vast majority of our jobs I doubt it would get even used.

    The tool setter/breakage detector looks like a good idea and reasonably priced, speed up loading tools and save tapping the odd broken drill bit...

    To be honest, we don't NEED a Brother. It won't be slinging chips 24/7 at the cyclic rate. But when you can get a Speedio for about the same cost as a VF-2 (standard VF, less money than a SS), it just seems like a no brainer even if it doesn't have the extra options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    But when you can get a Speedio for about the same cost as a VF-2 (standard VF, less money than a SS),
    Really? I was always under the impression they were about double that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    On TSC- I didn't realize it wasn't an option, so that clears it up that question. I understand it being critical to really get the full advantage of what a Brother can do, but for the vast majority of our jobs I doubt it would get even used.
    Meh. In aluminum, modern 3 flute, parabolic, 150 degree point angle drills (MA Ford, Ultratool) do such a great job of breaking chips that it is hard to say you really "need" TSC with them. I can't speak to harder stuff.

    The tool setter/breakage detector looks like a good idea and reasonably priced, speed up loading tools and save tapping the odd broken drill bit...
    All modern machines should come with spindle/tool probes. Full stop.

    The Metrol tool setter Yamazen sells is good, the Blum is nicer. I have a Metrol. Yamazen should have a procedure to grease pack the Metrol during your install, make sure they do it. The Blum doesn't have that issue, but also costs like 2x.

    Either way, the Yamazen probing macros are far superior to the Renishaw ones. Renishaw is really designed for fussy inspection routines for in-process work, but they are overly complicated and finicky for everyday offset probing and occasional simple parts measurement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrada View Post
    Really? I was always under the impression they were about double that.
    Same here, I just got a quote for due diligence. I asked the rep to repeat himself.. Don't go buying the last one out from under me!! ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    Wow, thanks for the replies, really appreciate the help.

    Sounds like we can skip the conveyor, pretty uniform consent on that. And that was the biggest uncertainty I had.

    On TSC- I didn't realize it wasn't an option, so that clears it up that question. I understand it being critical to really get the full advantage of what a Brother can do, but for the vast majority of our jobs I doubt it would get even used.

    The tool setter/breakage detector looks like a good idea and reasonably priced, speed up loading tools and save tapping the odd broken drill bit...

    To be honest, we don't NEED a Brother. It won't be slinging chips 24/7 at the cyclic rate. But when you can get a Speedio for about the same cost as a VF-2 (standard VF, less money than a SS), it just seems like a no brainer even if it doesn't have the extra options.
    TSC is not a go to. Less than half the machines we sell today have it and until the Speedio product it was only available on two models. 10X diameter is where it helps or when you are just trying to get every second out of a part. You will get great use out of it and the 10k spindle is pretty universal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    TSC is not a go to. Less than half the machines we sell today have it and until the Speedio product it was only available on two models. 10X diameter is where it helps or when you are just trying to get every second out of a part. You will get great use out of it and the 10k spindle is pretty universal.
    Yea, TSC is nice. But, I will caution: if you are using small tools, the standard 435psi is not enough.
    And, unless you have a table full of parts (like I did) the time it takes to prime every time it needs to turn on, negates any cycle time advantage you may get from being able to lean on the tool harder.
    Example: I was using each a 1/8" and a 17/64" carbide, through coolant drill. The coolant holes in the 1/8" were too small for the 435psi.
    I never could get that drill to run well. After I broke three of them I switched back to a plain ole' HSSCO drill, which lasted more than 20k holes.
    The 17/64" ran fantastic. But, I had to add a dwell for the pressure to come up, that was equal to the time it took to drill 4 of 12 holes.
    But, with the TSC on that 17/64", look out! It was stupid fast.
    Just be aware you need to research if 435psi is enough before you pop for the option.
    I like it, but could definitely get by without.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    Wow, thanks for the replies, really appreciate the help.

    Sounds like we can skip the conveyor, pretty uniform consent on that. And that was the biggest uncertainty I had.

    On TSC- I didn't realize it wasn't an option, so that clears it up that question. I understand it being critical to really get the full advantage of what a Brother can do, but for the vast majority of our jobs I doubt it would get even used.

    The tool setter/breakage detector looks like a good idea and reasonably priced, speed up loading tools and save tapping the odd broken drill bit...

    To be honest, we don't NEED a Brother. It won't be slinging chips 24/7 at the cyclic rate. But when you can get a Speedio for about the same cost as a VF-2 (standard VF, less money than a SS), it just seems like a no brainer even if it doesn't have the extra options.
    Right tool for the right job is what it comes down to.

    You had to mention Haas...here we go again lol

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    2x post oops

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Right tool for the right job is what it comes down to.

    You had to mention Haas...here we go again lol
    Sorry...For the record, Haas helped get us to this point, and they may be the best option again at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    Sorry...For the record, Haas helped get us to this point, and they may be the best option again at some point.
    I'm just saying pick the right tool for the job, if the speedio is the right tool for you then go for it. Far be it for anyone else but the man with the money to make the decision.

    The Haas comment was based on previous brother vs Haas matches in other threads,

    So no sorry needed

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    ......I've heard some machines (mainly Robodrills) are well enough designed that the chips flow out and it's not such a big issue......
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I can vouch for that ^ on the one I ran. Not familiar with the Brother machines in general, but I would hate to be without a chip conveyor unless the machine is really designed around not needing one...
    My 30 taper Mori has pretty good chip flow out of the enclosure and into the chip pan. For some of the jobs I do that is perfect. For other jobs, I have to go to the back and scrape the chips out of, or around in, the chip pan every 30 minutes or so. The chip pan near the exits from the enclosure get piled up if I let it go too long. Most of the time I'm fine without a conveyor. Those times that I have waited too long to clear the chips in the pan and had coolant overflow, I'm wishing I had a conveyor

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    The chip flow out the back of the Brother is as good as the Robo, it's quite similar in that part of the design.
    I have a 500 with 10K spindle. If you are running parts in the right envelope, IMHO it's a screaming deal right now. When I went to Brother from Haas and Robo, throughput went up a bunch. Energy use is lower too.
    Do try to get the larger chip pan. When I bought mine a small pan was standard, but someone had gone with a conveyor, so a larger pan was available.
    As noted above, the macros from Yamazen are pretty nice. I have a couple of jobs where I need to use the broken tool check, and it's scary fast.
    It's my understanding the 16K spindle has the lowest torque. (I also have a couple of 10K, hi-torque, dual contact machines.) The 10k machines also have steel bearings, IIRC the faster spindles have ceramic bearings, and may to take a hard smack as well.
    Good luck!

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    I got the base s500 and added my own wash down and air blast. Definitely get the larger coolant tank if you can, or keep a shovel close by :-) like I do. Long chips can pile up as mentioned, so I try and use serrated tool when I'm moving a lot of aluminum. Next on my priority list is a tool setter. Frikin love the machine though. Did a bunch of 1-72 and 0-80 threads for the first time. Man I love the speed.

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