Replacing a Fadal 3016

Houndogforever · Sep 25, 2021

What is equivalent these days?

Just a 24-30 inch X travel, machine. 40 taper.

Able to cut like the fadal, but faster and dependable.

YCM? Hurco? Sharp? Either new or less than 5 years old.

I don't need a 15,000lb beast, I want a 9-10,0000 lb machine.
I don't make large parts.

Of course all of this is for 2 years from now because money ain't free.

cgrim3 · Sep 25, 2021

Personally, I would go Daewoo/Doosan but that's just me. Rigid, accurate, and doesn't break the bank (depending on the machine of course)

Ianagos · Sep 25, 2021

I’m in a similar boat looking to replace the fadal with something. But I would like a heavy beast if possible.

What I have learned is that it’s a bad time to buy a machine right now. I started looking around this time last year and there were all kinds of stellar deal but this year most don’t want to offer much discount at all and even used machines are bringing good money.

Since you say you got 2 years I think it’s a bit early to start searching. I think of the brands mentioned along with Mazak/okuma any of those are going to be faster/better than the fadal.

I’m probably going to wait till next year at minimum to continue my search.

Houndogforever · Sep 25, 2021

Any feedback on the SVM 4100 by Doosan? It suits my size a little better than the DNM 4500.

Houndogforever · Sep 25, 2021

Ianagos said:
I’m in a similar boat looking to replace the fadal with something. But I would like a heavy beast if possible.

What I have learned is that it’s a bad time to buy a machine right now. I started looking around this time last year and there were all kinds of stellar deal but this year most don’t want to offer much discount at all and even used machines are bringing good money.

Since you say you got 2 years I think it’s a bit early to start searching. I think of the brands mentioned along with Mazak/okuma any of those are going to be faster/better than the fadal.

I’m probably going to wait till next year at minimum to continue my search.

Yeah, it's too early, but I just like to get familiar with things a bit. I looked at that Mazak EZ the other day but it was too big for me.

Ianagos · Sep 25, 2021

Houndogforever said:
Yeah, it's too early, but I just like to get familiar with things a bit. I looked at that Mazak EZ the other day but it was too big for me.

I looked at the Mazak ez and when they originally quoted it to me it was a good price for a Mazak but main issue for me was the casting looked pretty wimpy and the spindle was pretty underpowered.

cb750chris · Sep 25, 2021

If I was in the market I would consider this. Seems pretty close to what you described.

MILLTRONICS VM3018IL , 30" X, 18" Y, 22" Z NEW: 2016 | MM | eBay

I have an old partner 1 that does well for me and I would buy another milltronics most likely.

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Milland · Sep 25, 2021

cb750chris said:
If I was in the market I would consider this. Seems pretty close to what you described.

MILLTRONICS VM3018IL , 30" X, 18" Y, 22" Z NEW: 2016 | MM | eBay

I have an old partner 1 that does well for me and I would buy another milltronics most likely.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

That seems to be a pretty high price for an "as is, where is" no warranty machine of that size. But I guess that follows the scarcity rule.

But check out the table load capacity (MAX. WEIGHT ON TABLE: 30140 LBS), maybe I'm underestimating the studliness of the machine...

).

Ianagos · Sep 25, 2021

Yea seems real high considering with some sales you coulda had a haas vf2ss for 60k with a tooling package.

I’m not saying haas is what you should get but I don’t know too much about miltronics and from what I know I think they are on the lower end of machines.

Doosan is not much more 3016 machine may be around 75k with options I got a quote for less than that recently.

cb750chris · Sep 25, 2021

Pretty sure that table capacity was a typo lol. Probably more like 3k but don't quote me on that. I agree the price seems a bit high, but I believe that model is from their higher end line. I'm sure it could be had for less with some negotiating. Not bagging on Haas, but I haven't heard good things about their service lately local to me from multiple shops, or here on line. To the point that one all Haas shop I do work for is not all Haas anymore. They're buying Doosan and seem to be happy. Just what I've noticed, I'm sure there are many happy Haas customers.

I like the milltronics because I have one, it works well for me, I know how to work on it, and I like the control (I could jump on their newest control and be up and running in minutes, and my control is 25 years old). And its paid for itself many times over in the few years I've had it. Just my $.02

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Cole2534 · Oct 2, 2021

Unpopular thought- what about a Calmotion retrofit?

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cnctoolcat · Oct 3, 2021

I hate to be "that guy", but if you are making smaller parts, you might want to check out a Brother....

Houndogforever · Oct 3, 2021

cnctoolcat said:
I hate to be "that guy", but if you are making smaller parts, you might want to check out a Brother....

lol. I have a brother.

And this last spindle wack was a reminder that something are just better run on a CT40 spindle.

Speedie · Oct 3, 2021

It will be hard to replace a near free boxed way machine for 70K+ without that sinking ROI loss feeling every month

DouglasJRizzo · Oct 4, 2021

In your price range you've got a few options.
I'm a little biased, as I worked for them, but a Doosan DNM is a good choice.
For a little more money the Okuma Genos is even better.
The Hyundai looks decent, but I have no experience with them.
I've run both Hurco and Milltronics. Not bad machines. They're kinda light, but deliver a decent value.

The used CNC market is kinda wacky right now, much like the used car market. So a lot of the good values are just not there, like they were, at least for the time being.

Even the new machine market is affected, as many MTB's are quoting December/January deliveries on orders placed now.

Houndogforever · Oct 4, 2021

Speedie said:
It will be hard to replace a near free boxed way machine for 70K+ without that sinking ROI loss feeling every month

I thought we did this for fun, what is this RETURN you speak of?

Since I'm a manufacturer, I tend to look at things differently. Probably wrong.
I have a product line that is fairly consistent. I NEED a machine to make said parts.
I ran for 12 years before getting a second cnc mill so I know how things go with only one.

So I'm looking for a machine that can be set in place and used sporadically for the next 10 years.
I like to pay things off before starting a new one, that way my monthly budget is fairly consistent too.
I don't expect a replacement machine to pay for itself the first year.

Mtndew · Oct 4, 2021

What about something like this? I don't know how it compares to the Doosan you're looking at but Hyundai makes some good machines and usually at really good prices.
https://machine.hyundai-wia.com/usa/product/product_detail.asp?PRODUCT_SEQ=33445&PRODUCT_CODE=B02010

Garwood · Oct 4, 2021

If you don't need the speed of a brand new machine what is the advantage of new over a solid used high end machine?

Fadal is not even close to a good quality machine and you've made it work all these years.

Look for something like a creampuff Mori MV-40 from the mid 90's. They are more like 15k lbs, but a quality machine in that size range weighs more than 10k lbs.

Houndogforever · Oct 4, 2021

Garwood said:
If you don't need the speed of a brand new machine what is the advantage of new over a solid used high end machine?

Fadal is not even close to a good quality machine and you've made it work all these years.

Look for something like a creampuff Mori MV-40 from the mid 90's. They are more like 15k lbs, but a quality machine in that size range weighs more than 10k lbs.

I am renting a building with 5" thick, well reinforced, concrete floors. I am ok with 10,000lbs, but much over that and I'm sure I will have an issue.
My main reason for going new would be for longevity. That and dependability. That old Fadal dies a couple times a year and I'm really tired of that.
Picking up a 10 year old Japanese machine tool for under $60k would probably work. If such a thing exists.

Garwood · Oct 4, 2021

I wouldn't hesitate to put a 30k lb machine on a 5" slab provided nothing was settling and the gutters are piped away.

My first VMC was 18k lbs and I moved that thing in and out of several buildings. One building I parked that machine in had a 5" thick slab that was actually just 3" thick everywhere but the edges. 5 years I ran it there, nothing happened.

Replacing a Fadal 3016

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