Report From IMTS on CNC market

Mickey_D · Sep 14, 2016

I have spent the last three days here at IMTS and while down a little (some booths are a little smaller than last time) it is still a good show. Lots of people, really good deals, and hungry sales people. Everyone has some kind of special (Okuma is putting five year warranties on most of their stuff and Haas is doing big package throw ins and discounts). DMG and Doosan are going after each other big time (even gossip of someone peeing in someone's coolant tank) to the point of having security guards manning the booths at night.

The show is a lot better than I thought it was going to be and if you qualify for their new Star Club program make sure that you get the card (they have a special lounge with food and snacks setup plus you don't have to wait in line for the busses or cabs).

XD341 · Sep 15, 2016

Okuma made the 5 year warranty an IMTS special?....now I don't feel as special.

yardbird · Sep 15, 2016

Mickey_D said:
DMG and Doosan are going after each other big time (even gossip of someone peeing in someone's coolant tank) to the point of having security guards manning the booths at night.

Ha!Ha!...

Anyone find it ironic that at the big show featuring some of the latest and greatest technology available today they pull out one of the oldest stunts in the book?.... That is funny stuff!

It could be a lesson in not being so quick to jump the latest bandwagon but instead staying with technology/methods that have proven themselves over the test of time.

Brent

apoc_101 · Sep 15, 2016

yardbird said:
It could be a lesson in not being so quick to jump the latest bandwagon but instead staying with technology/methods that have proven themselves over the test of time.

Urine sabotage: proven technology.

exkenna · Sep 15, 2016

Did anyone see the big ZCC banner over the Kennametal booth?

JNieman · Sep 15, 2016

yardbird said:
Ha!Ha!...

Anyone find it ironic that at the big show featuring some of the latest and greatest technology available today they pull out one of the oldest stunts in the book?.... That is funny stuff!

It could be a lesson in not being so quick to jump the latest bandwagon but instead staying with technology/methods that have proven themselves over the test of time.

Brent

Pissing in the tank still requires you to stand there for a while with your dick in your hands while someone may catch you in the act - or at least dumping a bottle of it.

It'd be smarter to just drop a quick bit of bacteria-rich coolant you saved up before the show to get nice and ripe. That way you know it's a bacteria that'll eat up coolant and multiply even more in their tank.

moonlight machine · Sep 15, 2016

JNieman said:
Pissing in the tank still requires you to stand there for a while with your dick in your hands while someone may catch you in the act - or at least dumping a bottle of it.

It'd be smarter to just drop a quick bit of bacteria-rich coolant you saved up before the show to get nice and ripe. That way you know it's a bacteria that'll eat up coolant and multiply even more in their tank.

.......Biological warfare.......

yardbird · Sep 15, 2016

JNieman said:
Pissing in the tank still requires you to stand there for a while with your dick in your hands while someone may catch you in the act - or at least dumping a bottle of it.

It'd be smarter to just drop a quick bit of bacteria-rich coolant you saved up before the show to get nice and ripe. That way you know it's a bacteria that'll eat up coolant and multiply even more in their tank.

Lol...

I had envisioned a couple inebriated application engineers/salesman in the building after hours walking past their competitors booth. "Hey! I gotta piss! Tell me if ya see anyone coming". Snickering the whole time.

Yeah if it's a planned attack with something from a bottle then there are better things to use than pee. Probably all he had at the spur of the moment was his pecker be my guess? Somebody just trying to be a funny man be my bet?

Brent

CarbideBob · Sep 15, 2016

exkenna said:
Did anyone see the big ZCC banner over the Kennametal booth?

ZCC over Kennametal. Interesting thought there. Lessons from the Iscar playbook?
I've seen much worse sabotage after hours than peeing in a coolant tank.
Not sanctioned but but the kids working sometimes get just plain stupid as for many this is the first time they stand toe to toe with their competition in the same room.
Big or small you do have to police your own staff as they get easily "wound up" in the show and crowds. Not realizing and doing so is maybe a clear sign of management capabilities.
T'is not the time or place for late night guerilla warfare.
You drop an easy $40,000 on even a small booth with all costs but you must respect the others that did also.
The big guys spend 10X that. You would hope somewhat professional when spending that kind of money.
Bob

exkenna · Sep 15, 2016

Rumored announcement November 6th, or thereabouts.
The big K just played off 1000 people, including the two guys in my market.. one who had over 15 years in.
Warren Buffet made the trip to Latrobe but the gubment put the kibosh on it. Something about a monopoly of sorts.

SND · Sep 15, 2016

I don't think I'm quite following anymore. Who's ZCC? changes coming to the carbide world?

Can't say I'm a fan of those pulling possible sabotage though, happens way too much.

CarbideBob · Sep 15, 2016

Maybe, maybe not, or maybe just one more player in the field.
ZCC USA :: ZhuZhou Cemented Carbide Cutting Tools Co., Ltd
One is reminded of when both Mitsubishi and then later Iscar showed up out of nowhere. Today do you know who they are?
Both outside the US. Both fought through this and won market share. Both have a very loyal following now here in the US.
One maybe more tech side, the other more marketing. None of this lost on new guys coming up.
Carboloy, Valenite, Newcomer, Ex-cello, VR-Wesson, Krupp, ( I could list 10 other ex-vendors and once players) all gone. The landscape in the carbide world is consonantly shifting.
Bob

cnctoolcat · Sep 15, 2016

The Chinese control what, 90% of the world's supply of tungsten?

Seems like it's about time they made a big play in the U.S. carbide market.

Kennametal has been losing market share for years, as their success was based on selling to big factories at big markups, with the salesmen throwing around a lot of golf rounds, free meals, and beach trips.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SND · Sep 15, 2016

Interesting. Do you guys see any Pramet (made in Czech republic) carbide in the US? I only heard of them a few months ago, switched my DCGT 21.51 inserts from Korloy to them for my application, Korloys were up over $16(cad), these are around $10(cad) and I'm getting around double the edge life for what I'm doing with them. I haven't tried their other offerings yet but I should, I saw some holders and other inserts though and they did look perfectly fine.

Jashley73 · Sep 15, 2016

My mid-week plans fell apart, and I pretty much said "screw it" and drove up on a whim. Not expecting to, I ended up working our booth over 1/2 the day, so I didn't have much time to roam.

I didn't see any "sabotage" although I did notice several people committing some shameless & terribly disguised "espionage" of our products. I kinda had to chuckle, and even asked if I could answer any questions. I got a quick "No thank you" as they quietly studied away, with a half evil-look in their eyes... I hate to break it to them, but if they were looking to rip-off our designs, they're too late... (Some of the other big guys beat them to the punch months ago... LOL)
(I'm sure we've been accused of the same over the years too...)

I was kinda hoping to run into PM's latest hardturning/CBN expert, but alas, no luck...

CarbideBob · Sep 15, 2016

So how about machines? Anything really neat up top or price breaking on the lower end?
Any fancy AI, self setup, new and way niffty?
What was impressive to the "wow" standpoint and "you have to see this"?
Did you find things everyone should spend money on? Companies or things everyone should see or know about?
Some of us did not go so hey....what did we miss?

And if you drove up on a whim for a day jashely73 , where did you park? Seems the town is in a bit of a mess right now.
Seems the IMTS guide to travel into town is just this side of absolutely worthless and built by 10 year olds. This is the best of our brightness in the manufacturing world?
Lord help us all.
Viewing it I'd have heads on a platter. Let's make it hard and complicated for people to attend unless you can buy a limo from the hotel. (which is sometimes cheaper than a cab)
The planners blew it for a show this size. Perhaps they are so big they don't care anymore.

I do know my way around the area a bit.
You should have sent a message on your way out and at least this PM rookie would have been there to give you a hard time in the booth.

.
Bob

ewlsey · Sep 15, 2016

I remember the first time I heard about Sumitomo carbide. I kept thinking "the motor/gearbox company"? Then the Koreans were everywhere. Tungaloy, Koroloy, YG-1, etc. It's just a matter of time before we start seeing tons of Chinese OEM products.

WILLEO6709 · Sep 15, 2016

I was at the show from the gun to about 1 pm tuesday. I did not spend a lot of time in north/ east but most of my time was in West/ south.

Hardinge has a Flexc adapter for both id mandrels and 5c. This is in addition to the s20/s26 master flexc collets that are in the catalog. More along the lines of the hainbuck system but a little different.

I did not realize edge/ fmb made swiss type collets( maybe just sells)

I had seen some videos on youtube but did not know what high pressure coolant on regular od stuck tools did n=for cutting speeds, chip breaking etc. Not heavily focused on at the show unless you asked but 4-5 vendors have it, so likely not a total farce. I'd like to hear opposing opinions on people using it.

I was surprised in that there was maybe 1-2 small vertical machines in the mazak booth- rest was hmc's, integrexes, etc.

I did not go into the dmg booth...

The toyoda vmc's looked nice...... hyundai wia had some nice looking machines on the larger side

Kurt's new 6 inch vise looked good, forget the callout.

more people make live tooling on bmt pattern than I would have believed.

I spent my main wad before the show but its yet to be unveiled in the new machine month thread..... so I won't spill the beans here. I was focused on stuff for my new purchase, but you'll have to see that as it develops in the other thread.

Chrisvector · Sep 15, 2016

If you are not at imts you do not know what you are missing. I will be buying a pallet pool from okuma tomorrow, got free beer at DMG MORI and am at a Syracuse supply after party with Doosan. It is a good time.

CarbideBob · Sep 15, 2016

Fancy ,new, I want point the camera at the piece on the vise, load the solid model. computer calls out tools to be loaded, make chips.
No time spent fiddle farting around. Is this too much to ask? Big die people are very close to this now.
Not at the show? Hands off, crazy computer thinking and control? There must be something new...
Bob

Report From IMTS on CNC market

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Titanium

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Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

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Titanium

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Plastic

Diamond

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