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Retrofits, control upgrades and or swaps.

DMSentra

Cast Iron
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Location
Eugene Oregon
Matsuura MC-500V with the single line LED screen input readout, Yasnac control.
The machine had minor mechanical issues before a ham fisted tech smoked the control to a point. The led readout is now dead, and some other features on the panel are dead.
Since it looks likely scrapping it or a major change is needed I've wondered if going to the more modern control with the CRT would be feasible?
Second option is finding and replacing that model of control.
Third option is retrofitting to Centroid, Dynomotion or similar unit. I'm so lost of what they're asking on their websites I can't even determine what item(s) I would need to price out or if they can even handle this job. I'd really rather not spend multiples of what the machine is worth trying to polish what was a smooth running turd.

Photo album link. Matsuura retrofit - Google Photos
 
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Matsuura MC-500V with the single line LED screen input readout, Yasnac control.
The machine had minor mechanical issues before a ham fisted tech smoked the control to a point. The led readout is now dead, and some other features on the panel are dead.
Since it looks likely scrapping it or a major change is needed I've wondered if going to the more modern control with the CRT would be feasible?
Second option is finding and replacing that model of control.
Third option is retrofitting to Centroid, Dynomotion or similar unit. I'm so lost of what they're asking on their websites I can't even determine what item(s) I would need to price out or if they can even handle this job. I'd really rather not spend multiples of what the machine is worth trying to polish what was a smooth running turd.
Contact Bill Meyers and he can help you with a Centroid retrofit. Guy is a centroid guru. His number 724-622-5661 and he is out of Pennsylvania.

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Exactly how much do you guys think a centroid costs?? He could likely upgrade that machine for less than 4-5k, doing the install himself. If you know where to get a mid 2000's machine for that kind of money, I'd sure like to know about it.

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Exactly how much do you guys think a centroid costs?? He could likely upgrade that machine for less than 4-5k, doing the install himself. If you know where to get a mid 2000's machine for that kind of money, I'd sure like to know about it.

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So you figure his time is worthless?

Spending ~$12k to get a machine that is 3 times faster and ~20 years newer is a better way to get back to making money than spending $5k on a retrofit kit and putting in many hours of labor getting it running kinda sorta with a buggy and under-developed logic program for the magazine and toolchanger.

Retrofitting a commodity VMC from the late 70s-early 80s is a fools game for anyone trying to be in business.
 
Exactly how much do you guys think a centroid costs?? He could likely upgrade that machine for less than 4-5k, doing the install himself. If you know where to get a mid 2000's machine for that kind of money, I'd sure like to know about it.

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They are out there.

Vancbiker hit the nail on the head
 
EG has the right of this. For the same money as you will spend on a Centroid retrofit you could get a 20 year newer machine that will run circles around the old one.

1998 Mori Seiki SV400 Vertical Machining Center, Fanuc 18i Control -...

I tend to agree that it's time for retirement of the Matsuura, but I'd be cautious of this Craigslist machine (no offense, Vanc). It looks like it's been run pretty hard, and has a note on it (Do Not Power Down) that makes me nervous it may have its own gremlins in the controls or other electronics.

And hey, shopping is fun! :D

IF area rigging costs are very high, access into/out of the shop is difficult, and the Mat is really in great shape for a dead hulk, then sure, explore the costs (especially time) for retrofitting it. But be hard-headed with your decisions...
 
Exactly how much do you guys think a centroid costs?? He could likely upgrade that machine for less than 4-5k, doing the install himself. If you know where to get a mid 2000's machine for that kind of money, I'd sure like to know about it.

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And then there is still no guarantee it will run when it lands at my place, right? That's the iisue I'm up against now. Found a machine I like because that's what I've been running, I can afford and haul it, but it's not under power now and all I have is a video it used to work. Well duh, they all did. It's $4k but that's all I have.
 
I looked at another that is above what I have to spend by a bit, but loading only was quoted twice at over $2700 for what looks to me a simple fork job on a 12k pound machine. That took it way beyond what I can afford. Vancbiker, that's 3.5x my budget. I know that's a smart way to go but it can't happen.
 
So you figure his time is worthless?

Spending ~$12k to get a machine that is 3 times faster and ~20 years newer is a better way to get back to making money than spending $5k on a retrofit kit and putting in many hours of labor getting it running kinda sorta with a buggy and under-developed logic program for the magazine and toolchanger.

Retrofitting a commodity VMC from the late 70s-early 80s is a fools game for anyone trying to be in business.

I was visiting with a customer this week that has very large machines and the internal engineering to do in house retrofits and rebuilds. These are very large machines and they have done about 5-6 of these rebuild/retrofit projects. Replacement machines are $1mil or more and they are now looking at the difference of new machines versus their old iron. Even with these big expensive machines, new technology makes a difference. Cutting technology has changed. Adding a control that can cut at above 400IPM makes no sense when the machine rapids are about that. The Matsuura is a small travel machine. A used ROBO , Brother or Haas will be less or similar cost to the retrofit. And it would work and you will have support.
 
I retrofitted a machine 23 years ago with a new control. I have various skill sets not related to machining that made this somewhat easy for me.

It is not simple.

The economics have changed.

20 years ago, 20 year old machines with bad controls were 10-20 grand.

Now 20 year old machines are still 20 k bu they have controls that were state of the art when I did that retro.
 
I tend to agree that it's time for retirement of the Matsuura, but I'd be cautious of this Craigslist machine (no offense, Vanc). It looks like it's been run pretty hard, and has a note on it (Do Not Power Down) that makes me nervous it may have its own gremlins in the controls or other electronics.

That Mori is run hard, but fair shape. It is not far from me.
 
I have been working for 3 weeks on getting a 40 year-old machine to work again (GE1050MC control!).
A new machine of similar size will cost >4 Million. Having done several retrofits in the past, I suggest that you don't even consider anything worth retrofitting that can be replaced by a 20 year-old 10-20k used machine. If you can afford that, maybe you should reconsider a different business.
 
.......Vancbiker, that's 3.5x my budget. I know that's a smart way to go but it can't happen.

Sorry, I assumed that this was for a business rather than a hobby application.

Doing a retrofit well is tough. Getting the axis motion is the easy part. Making the magazine and toolchanger run well is the tough part. Writing robust logic for a toolchange function is not easy. Most folks that say how easy a retrofit is easy, don't have/use a toolchanger. If they do have a toolchanger it is buggy. For the person that did the retrofit it is often easy to figure out since they know what they did. For another person it is often an undocumented headache to try to figure out why it quit working.
 
How much floor space do you have and what's your budget, delivered?

Can you use an HMC?

Would you want the old POS hauled off and scrapped same time?

Can I back up a semi/trailer up to your shop door? (Not many places I can't get into, but when you can't you can't)

Do you have green cash money or is it credit card only?

You can PM me if you like
 
Sorry, I assumed that this was for a business rather than a hobby application.

Doing a retrofit well is tough. Getting the axis motion is the easy part. Making the magazine and toolchanger run well is the tough part. Writing robust logic for a toolchange function is not easy. Most folks that say how easy a retrofit is easy, don't have/use a toolchanger. If they do have a toolchanger it is buggy. For the person that did the retrofit it is often easy to figure out since they know what they did. For another person it is often an undocumented headache to try to figure out why it quit working.

Starting a home shop. Have a cnc lathe up and running along with a good array of manuals. A small vmc would fill out my needs well for the bigger stuff.
Tool change code isn't like G/M code then I guess. Everyone is saying that's the wrench in the works.
 
Starting a home shop. Have a cnc lathe up and running along with a good array of manuals. A small vmc would fill out my needs well for the bigger stuff.
Tool change code isn't like G/M code then I guess. Everyone is saying that's the wrench in the works.
I have a Tree 750 with a 20 carousel that the centroid retrofit that runs great "now". I bought it from a auction already retrofitted back in 2014. It still had several bugs in it from someone guessing at what they were doing. Bill Meyers came and worked out the bugs in a few hours by changing parameters and some settings in the VFD that were set wrong.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Matsuura MC-500V with the single line LED screen input readout, Yasnac control.
The machine had minor mechanical issues before a ham fisted tech smoked the control to a point. The led readout is now dead, and some other features on the panel are dead.
Since it looks likely scrapping it or a major change is needed I've wondered if going to the more modern control with the CRT would be feasible?
Second option is finding and replacing that model of control.
Third option is retrofitting to Centroid, Dynomotion or similar unit. I'm so lost of what they're asking on their websites I can't even determine what item(s) I would need to price out or if they can even handle this job. I'd really rather not spend multiples of what the machine is worth trying to polish what was a smooth running turd.

I run a Fadal 4020 with Dynomotion control and really like it, would recommend it over centroid for its flexibility.
But as others have said its a ton of work to get it all working properly with toolchanger and everything. If you have a bunch of time and limited amount of work or money consider a retrofit. If you have parts to make right now look for a machine that you can use right away.
 








 
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