Robodrill or Brother

IAMATT · Apr 22, 2016

Looking at the pallet and non pallet machines (Need 2). The Robodrill seems to have an enormous advantage in spindle power but that is where it looks like it ends. The front style pallet changer on the Brother looks like it is much faster than the Robodrill and the ergonomics look much better. There are so many specifications to discuss I was wondering if anyone here had fully spec'd out a Robodrill before buying a Brother or the other way around.

TrollTuner · Apr 22, 2016

I recently looked at both. Ended up with a S700X1 with 16K Big plus spindle, OMP40 and BlumZ. Love the PC app to send files straight over. Monitoring cycle times from the Web Browser in the office helps bookkeeping.

I have three other Haas machines and learning the new control took about a week. Seems to have enough power to pull a 3/4 Drill in aluminum decently hard. The program restart takes a bit longer than the Haas but that is probably something we can learn a better method.

Yamazen was easy to deal with both on the sales side and support after. Whether its a dumb question I missed the answer in the book or a good head scratcher. Thinking about adding another with 4th axis and possibly the 10K spindle.

Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

Have to run wear out the Green Button.

Freds · Apr 22, 2016

We started out considering a Robodrill Cell; then talked to Yamazen about our needs and became acquainted with the Brother R650 pallet machine. As you point out, hard to do a direct comparison given all the features. When we revisited the Robodrill with its shuttle pallet system it became apparent that the Brother was much better suited to automation (pneumatic or hydraulic vises, etc) on the table with its center column plumbing options.

Doing our best comparison of basic machines, the Brother is less expensive - significant but not dramatically so.

Are you planning to outfit the machine with trunions, 4/5 axis devices, or other types of automation? now or in the future?

Fred

SND · Apr 22, 2016

IAMATT said:
The Robodrill seems to have an enormous advantage in spindle power but that is where it looks like it ends.

Hum, I think you got them crossed there, when I look at the continuous KW spindle output of each machines... Brother is 40-100% higher on every model.

tc1999 · Apr 22, 2016

IAMATT said:
Looking at the pallet and non pallet machines (Need 2). The Robodrill seems to have an enormous advantage in spindle power but that is where it looks like it ends. The front style pallet changer on the Brother looks like it is much faster than the Robodrill and the ergonomics look much better. There are so many specifications to discuss I was wondering if anyone here had fully spec'd out a Robodrill before buying a Brother or the other way around.

I think you spelled fadal wrong

jid2 · Apr 22, 2016

The Brother High Torque 10K spindle has more power and torque than any of the Robodrills. So the first decision for a Brother is typically do you need the 10K high torque or the 16K spindle. The standard 10k spindle on the Brothers is something that nobody is really interested in, or shouldn't be. If you are looking pallet changing Brother is in a league of their own.

Also, the Robodrill comes with Fanucs standard no memory huge pain in the ass Fanuc control. Even though it's the "top of the line" Plenty of guys here complain about it, you can find threads like, "brand new Robodrill, but control won't let me do this?". As others have said the Brother control is nice to use, and really easy to network and share push and pull data from.

waytoolcrazy · Apr 22, 2016

I agree with jid2, I have a Brother R650 pallet machine with the 16k spindle and I run an Iscar .937" insert drill in 1018 steel at 1800 rpm and 4.IPM in the 80% spindle load area... very good IMO. As for the QT (Quick Turn) pallet, all I have to say is WOW! I was kind of on the fence about buying a pallet machine or another non-pallet mill and I am glad I went with that one, jobs are completed in fewer days and it allows the operator the time to be careful and precise when loading and unloading because it is still running during part change.

IAMATT · Apr 22, 2016

The 650 was on the list but after doing some case studies on pocketing I don't see where the 16000rpm spindle has an advantage over the 10000rpm. The machine quickly runs out of power. So lets say a simple pocket 1.1" deep 6061, coolant through pocket dimensions are 6"x6". What are your case study numbers? I am all ears as to why a 10000rpm spindle would be something nobody should be interested in. These pockets are going to be a long time on going process for us. The 650 is similar to the 700X and 1000X but wont tap as fast (which is strange, 6 versus 8000rpm) but pallet changes save a ton of time.

IAMATT · Apr 22, 2016

tc1999 said:
I think you spelled fadal wrong

Yaaaa wanna buy some? You know you want more rigidity.

BROTHERFRANK · Apr 22, 2016

The Brother horsepower specs are conservative. They are now using ISO standards. Also the specs in the brochure are in KW. Multiply by 1.34 to get Horsepower. Here is a real world example of the standard brother 10K, non-Hi Torque and non-Big Plus spindle in a S700 style machine milling steel with a .787" Dia. cutter:

Brother CNC Slotting in steel 10 Cubic Inches per Min..MOV - YouTube

The performance is the sum of the parts. Rigidity of the structure, quality of the spindle, motors, servos, ball screws, guides etc... The control and how it communicates with the servos and Brother's fine tuning of the complete system. Spindle horsepower is part of the equation.

BROTHERFRANK · Apr 22, 2016

Just saw your post about your application, 6" x 6" x 1.1" pocket in 6061. This pocket is 1.25" deep machined in one shot:

Brother One Minute Pocket - YouTube

This was 1.25" Axial DOC, .300" Radial DOC at 240 IPM with standard 10k spindle. 1/2" end mill.

I would recommend the Turbo SCRAPER conveyor to handle all those chips you are going to make!

IAMATT · Apr 22, 2016

Thank you for those videos and information. That steel removal at 10 cubes per minute on a standard bt30 without the high torque option is most impressive. I am going to demo both machines very soon. I really would like to see a pallet changing machine like a 1000mm pallet. The 650 we were interested in was the low table version. I dont think there is one that Methods brought in that isnt already sold. I was told 4 months lead time.

jid2 · Apr 22, 2016

I'll just say if you go 10K you should get the high torque, it gives you extra capability and a big plus taper. For aluminum stuff the 16K is where it's at, the speed reduces cycle time. Pretty much every tool I run is at 16K, including the 1/2 tool for roughing.

John Welden · Apr 22, 2016

My grandma has a Brother sewing machine. Nuff said.

My Robodream (that's what I call it) came with 56k of memory, course I upgraded to 128k, but I'm kind of a hot rod upgrade guy. (Got NOS on my 92 Iroc Z....so yeah, I like to go fast.)

Nother sweet thing bout the Robo is the tool changer is drivin off the spindle motor. So you basically have a ten horsepower tool changer. I wish someone made a tool changer dyno

Cycle1000 · Apr 23, 2016

For a pallet changer I like the Robodrill setup better than the Brother 450 I have. Its a pain to do setups when you cant see the work from the panel. Also a pain to hit go for the first time when you cant see the work. Unless your arms are 2ft longer than mine..and able to go around corners.. :crazy:

Of course once you do have the setup done it works ok, the memory thing is what took me away from the Robodrill..such a scam.
Gary

IAMATT · Apr 23, 2016

Freds said:
We started out considering a Robodrill Cell; then talked to Yamazen about our needs and became acquainted with the Brother R650 pallet machine. As you point out, hard to do a direct comparison given all the features. When we revisited the Robodrill with its shuttle pallet system it became apparent that the Brother was much better suited to automation (pneumatic or hydraulic vises, etc) on the table with its center column plumbing options.

Doing our best comparison of basic machines, the Brother is less expensive - significant but not dramatically so.

Are you planning to outfit the machine with trunions, 4/5 axis devices, or other types of automation? now or in the future?

Fred

Trunions are the plan but not for the first 9 months. And there may be other types of automation. The plumbing is fantastic and another reason the choice is swayed. I would love to see what a 16K spindle would do with a 1/2" endmill cutting at 1.1 depth in 6061 for roughing a pocket. Knowing nothing about the power curve of the spindle on a 650 I can only speculate.

IAMATT · Apr 23, 2016

Cycle1000 said:
For a pallet changer I like the Robodrill setup better than the Brother 450 I have. Its a pain to do setups when you cant see the work from the panel. Also a pain to hit go for the first time when you cant see the work. Unless your arms are 2ft longer than mine..and able to go around corners..
Of course once you do have the setup done it works ok, the memory thing is what took me away from the Robodrill..such a scam.
Gary

My first experience with the twin pallet machines like this was in the early 90s. The ergonomics felt very goofy but the machine really performed well. 5hp 10000rpm spindle and twin pallet. So wrong felt so right after you had a pallet of parts ready for plating. I used to have dreams about goofy machines and buildings attached to buildings. Now I live that every day. But when I look at these types of machines its hard to justify why you would ever buy one without a pallet changer.

cnctoolcat · Apr 23, 2016

I think it's interesting that Brother builds the pallet-changing machines totally different from the standard single table machines. The pallet changer machines are traveling column, whereas the standard table machines are built like the typical C-frame machining center.
Strictly from a mechanical design standpoint, the single-table machines should have a slight rigidity advantage, as the Z-axis is mounted to the fixed column, versus a moving column with stacked X and Y.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2outof3 · Apr 23, 2016

IAMATT said:
Trunions are the plan but not for the first 9 months. And there may be other types of automation. The plumbing is fantastic and another reason the choice is swayed. I would love to see what a 16K spindle would do with a 1/2" endmill cutting at 1.1 depth in 6061 for roughing a pocket. Knowing nothing about the power curve of the spindle on a 650 I can only speculate.

That depth is on our standard demos. On the standard demo .500 diameter, the depth is 1.1 inches using a 3 flute sintered metal rougher. The speed is 10k RPM, 200 inches a minute and a .200 step over. We have done more using solid carbide but the sintered cutter is tried and true and never a hiccup. I probably have close to a 100 customers using some variation of that cut as their standard roughing routine. You can get more metal removal rates using carbide.

2outof3 · Apr 23, 2016

Cycle1000 said:
For a pallet changer I like the Robodrill setup better than the Brother 450 I have. Its a pain to do setups when you cant see the work from the panel. Also a pain to hit go for the first time when you cant see the work. Unless your arms are 2ft longer than mine..and able to go around corners..
Of course once you do have the setup done it works ok, the memory thing is what took me away from the Robodrill..such a scam.
Gary

The R450 does not come standard with a side door to save floor space. The R650 however has the side door as standard and the control is on that side of the machine.

Robodrill or Brother

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