RS232 Working and Then Nothing
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  1. #1
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    Default RS232 Working and Then Nothing

    I've got an old Kia KT15 with Yasnac LX3 control that I setup a RS232 communication with DNC4U when I first bought it. Once I had it figured out thing worked like a champ sending/receiving programs to and from the machine. I hadn't used it in awhile powered it up tried sending a program and nothing. I have went over everything I can think of and no luck. Everything else on the machine is fine.

    I bought a simple plug in RS232 tool to check to see what was active on the cable wires and everything is pointing to the machine.

    My question is there simple things to check? Fuses, relays, parameters, ect…?

    I bought another cable and had it wired up the same way to see if the cable crapped out no change. I really don't want to get inside this old beast and start tinkering but I'm back to working on the machine constantly and finger punching in code is getting old.

    Anyone else run into a similar scenario or have ideas?

    Thanks guys.

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    I use dnc4u also. About the only thing I can think of is did you make sure the computer you're using to send and receive with has the COM port on the computer completely setup to match the settings in dnc4u? I use XP and Windows 7. On those you look in the Device Manager. (Right click My Computer/Hardware/Device Manager/Comm Ports)

    How many of the green lights at the bottom of the dnc4u window are red? A hardware wired XON/XOFF will potentially have two red that turn green during transmission. A software XON/XOFF with the slightly differently configured cable will have all green all the time when you're good to go.

    Dave

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    Is communication dead both directions? Do you use the PC to communicate with other machines to know it is ok?

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    Maybe you got a windows update.

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    my desktop computer is hooked up with a splitter box so that I can run multiple machines from a single port. currently our other routers and mills have either usb or floppy so don't have another machine to hook up to. have a 2nd lathe just haven't gotten that far.

    I have a manual for the kia so as far as the direct rs232 parameters go those are correct and match with the computer and verified/double checked in the machine.

    I also went as far as buying another copy of the software and putting it on my laptop and having another cable made up. I don't buy my rs232 cables off the shelf have a company make them custom to each machine/control/wiring config. I also eliminated the switch box on the computer and tried both comm ports on my desktop. I have verified when setting up that correct comm port is being used on the desktop.

    Communication is dead in both directions. DNC4U has some red lights on down on the screen whereas before its green across the board (assuming green across the board is good to go). So this tells me something changed at some point.

    It just seems something went down when machine wasn't being used when I hook up the rs232 reader it shows the machine side is not ready to send/receive and the computer side is ok.

    I'm not great with this IT crap so just seeing if i'm overlooking some simple things or if there was some common mishaps that people have ran into.

    We are heavy on milling in the shop so the lathe sits for long periods but the turning work is back and ramping up so this is turning back into a thorn in my side....

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    My guess is a surge in incoming power(lightning storm recently?) took out the communication board in the controller. Do you have cable running up in the rafters from the PC to the machine? We had this happen twice, then bought in line surge protectors and haven't had a problem since (8 - 10 years). Fanuc controllers, around $300. to replace it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ducesrwld View Post
    my desktop computer is hooked up with a splitter box so that I can run multiple machines from a single port. currently our other routers and mills have either usb or floppy so don't have another machine to hook up to. have a 2nd lathe just haven't gotten that far.

    I have a manual for the kia so as far as the direct rs232 parameters go those are correct and match with the computer and verified/double checked in the machine.

    I also went as far as buying another copy of the software and putting it on my laptop and having another cable made up. I don't buy my rs232 cables off the shelf have a company make them custom to each machine/control/wiring config. I also eliminated the switch box on the computer and tried both comm ports on my desktop. I have verified when setting up that correct comm port is being used on the desktop.

    Communication is dead in both directions. DNC4U has some red lights on down on the screen whereas before its green across the board (assuming green across the board is good to go). So this tells me something changed at some point.

    It just seems something went down when machine wasn't being used when I hook up the rs232 reader it shows the machine side is not ready to send/receive and the computer side is ok.

    I'm not great with this IT crap so just seeing if i'm overlooking some simple things or if there was some common mishaps that people have ran into.

    We are heavy on milling in the shop so the lathe sits for long periods but the turning work is back and ramping up so this is turning back into a thorn in my side....
    The driver chips are relatively easy to replace if you need to though they are getting harder to locate. Many times they are socketed.

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    Perhaps reseat the comm card in the control? Easy and safe to do, just make sure the power is off, don't touch any traces or wear a ground strap for safety. If you see any oxidation on the connection remove it with a pencil eraser, carefully.

    Part of why I love DNC4U is the input indicators at the bottom of the screen. Yes, when the control is set to receive all lights should be on, although on one of my mills DSR is always red. Since it has been 16 years since I set the cable up I don't remember exactly how it is wired.

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    We had a power surge affect 2 machines and a PC once. It occurred on a weekend while all machines were off and we were away. I discovered the problem on the following Monday after the storm. Lucky for me the problem was so large that it was easy to blame a surge while we weren't there. I carefully extracted and socketed the RS232 chip that FANUC sold me for about $8 and I was back up and running there, got a new ISA card with RS232 DB9 on the back to get around the dead COM port on the PC. It's a thought that this could have happened, was the machine connected to the PC while it wasn't running for a long period? The chip I replaced was a TI 75188N. I think the machine could receive, but not send, so there may be two chips on the board that you may want to look at...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EVX View Post
    ......The chip I replaced was a TI 75188N. I think the machine could receive, but not send, so there may be two chips on the board that you may want to look at...
    The complementary chip is a SN75189. These chips were used for many versions of Fanuc control. The OP has Yasnac and I do not recall if they used the 75188 and 75189 chips or a combined chip like the MAX232.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    My guess is a surge in incoming power(lightning storm recently?) took out the communication board in the controller. Do you have cable running up in the rafters from the PC to the machine? We had this happen twice, then bought in line surge protectors and haven't had a problem since (8 - 10 years). Fanuc controllers, around $300. to replace it.
    now this makes a lot more sense as it was back in the spring when this happened so was the season for rain/storms and we had some surges in the building during biz hours. we are running the rs232 in the rafters along conduit. I've got a buddy coming over when he has some time to look into this more as I sometimes am afraid of my own shadow when it comes to the control/electronics. we did have the control open at one point just to take a peek and did not see anything visual as far as a fried/burnt component.

    if we pull the board can this get fixed by a board repair shop or do I need to start looking for a used board for this old beast?

    thanks for the replies here guys.

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    Using same computer?

    I have a couple machines that just do not like playing with my newer PC's and laptops.

    I'll get them to send or receive a program thinking I finally got it...but then thats it...nothing.

    What I found to be most reliable, older PC with nothing newer then windows 95 and if I really want rock sold...remove it all and just use DOS with an old terminal program. I have several old machines with dedicated Old PC's and a backup or two.

    I guess I could play with it to get it figured out...but I just want to make parts. I've had techs come in and sometimes they can use their laptops...other times I just tell them to use the ol PC.

    If anything made any sence to me it was a guy that said the newer computers use emulators for the ports and the older machines are not always compatible. I have no idea if true or not...just know what works for me.

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    Good luck with your buddy taking a look at it. I was really surprised that the "surge" or whatever happend at our facility didn't take out more than just a few small RS232 chips in each machine/computer. I suppose they were all grounded together, but I really couldn't explain why the damage was so confined to the RS232 in my experience.

    One other repair conundrum I had was on an old Amiga computer. I "hot plugged" something in a port and it died. I found the power supply was dead. I replaced all the capacitors because many of them looked like they were about to burst. Nadda... Then a week later, I replaced the 5v and 12v regulators and it was alive. Long story short, I blamed what I saw and replaced that, then replaced what wasn't new and that was the problem. Have your buddy run some diagnostics if you can!!! I could have saved a lot of time if I'd used a voltmeter that day....

    I can't vouch for this company, but they have been calling me for years offering repair services for electronic boards/motors/hydraulics and such... I suspect they must have a good reputation for being in biz for the better part of a decade when I started getting calls from them. Global Electronic Services | Electronic Equipment Repair Service They seem to say they can quote a fix and then have you proceed or not. They certainly sounded competent in FANUC repairs, so maybe give them a call.


    It's a shame that no little guys can repair a board these days, but then again, the cost of screwing one up probably is so much higher than the repair, that no one wants to deal with it! Same as charging $25 for tapping a single hole in a $10k pc of material... Not a fun job...

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    What version of windows are you running?

    are you using a older pc with a 9 pin? or running a usb set-up.

    My windows 7 pro pc (only one of them) has a issue from time to time, I have to shut it down and start it back up then try it again. every other pc doesnt have a problem.

    if you had a update that could be a problem as well. if your using a USB type connection thats more than likely your problem.
    In the 30 years I been doing this with many machines and I set up all my buddies machines I have never had a problem with a power surge wiping out a rs232 chip in the machine. it can happen as I have heard about it online. but no one I know personally has had that problem. we get some pretty intense lightning here in AZ and surges often.
    I use DNC4u also have you tried the set up wizzard?
    check all your conections make sure your pins are actually going in the hole and not pushed back. you could have a broken wire also if you moved any.
    also take a cable thats working from one machine put it on the other, and vise versa.
    your parms could have been changed.
    I run a switch box as well check the connections there also.
    but before wasting time checking your rs232 on the machine side(except parms) check to make sure your other machines work with that cable and conectors.


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